Made in Taiwan.



Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby Stephen Hawkins » Mon Mar 06, 2017 10:05 am

Jerry,

I certainly didn't believe that you were trying to undermine my assertions, and I apologise for not responding to your post directly. The information I had at the time of your post did come from a reliable source within the industry, and the figure of 75% was accurate at the time of writing. As for the claim that 90% of Hohner is owned by the Taiwanese, I can only say that I have faithfully represented the document I have seen.

Paul,

Like a circle in a spiral, like a wheel within a wheel. It really is a most frustrating and complex investigation. All I can really say at this stage is that very little is quite as it is presented to the public.
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby Glenn » Tue Mar 07, 2017 6:42 am

How much information does the customer need to "know" to assign a product to a country (which is essentially what's being discussed here)?
If I buy a packet of sausages marked "pure British" should I have been informed that the salt was from France, the herbs from Israel, the skins sourced in Poland, the packaging from paper manufactured and printed in China, the mincing machines used from Germany, the lighting in the factory from Korea and the owner of the retailers from India etc etc.? What makes it A British sausage (or not) in this case?


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3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby Leon » Tue Mar 07, 2017 7:26 am

For sport shoes, sport wear, electronics, home appliances, etc, no matter what big brand names, there will be a label stated "made in XXX" . why not accordions?
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby JerryPH » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:43 am

Leon wrote:For sport shoes, sport wear, electronics, home appliances, etc, no matter what big brand names, there will be a label stated "made in XXX" . why not accordions?


They do have it, but just like all the other products you mention, that is no guarantee of any accuracy or truth. :)
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby Stephen Hawkins » Tue Mar 07, 2017 10:51 am

Glenn,

The essential part of this thread is about honesty and decency in the business World.

As previously stated, I don't mind where an accordion is made, just as long as the company which makes it doesn't try to pull the wool over my eyes.

Given that the EU has (supposedly) strict legislation concerning the origins of products sold in Europe, one could be forgiven for thinking that any item from outside the EU should be easily and clearly identifiable. Of course, that statement takes no account of political complicity.

I guess that you are correct in some ways, Glenn, though I still maintain that the consumer has the right to full disclosure of product origins in order that they have sufficient information to make an informed choice.

Leon has hit the nail on the head with his examples of other products which are clearly labelled. I bought my Wife and myself matching DELL laptops a couple of years ago. They were clearly labelled as being "Made in China", and I had no issue with that when I made the purchase. Had the origins been opaque, and I only later found out that they were made in China, that would, in my eyes, be an entirely different matter.

I bought my Chanson in the full knowledge that it was a Chinese made instrument. The key words in that sentence are "full knowledge." Nothing less than that is acceptable to me.
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby debra » Tue Mar 07, 2017 12:26 pm

My Macbook says "Designed in California, assembled in China". That's what I would call honest.
My Hohner Morino Artiste XS says "Made in Germany" but is actually made (mostly?) in Italy by Excelsior. That's what I would call dishonest. But rules may have become stricter in the 20 years since my Hohner was made.
I actually like the "assembled in" phrase because most anything you buy now has parts coming from different parts of the world. My Russian AKKO has parts that come from Italy (for instance the buttons), and celluloid imported from Italy, but then these may have actually been made somewhere else before ending up in Italy to then be shipped to Russia... origins are hard to trace, but where the instrument is assembled should be clear.
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby Stephen Hawkins » Wed Mar 08, 2017 12:34 am

Paul,

It is difficult, but I do believe that honesty in trading is essential. In order to achieve that honesty, I believe that exposing dishonesty would bring significant changes.

If some on this site remain unconcerned about being lied to, that is a matter for them. As for myself, though I may ultimately fail, my instinct is to at least attempt to inform.

It was a 19th century Mexican General who said: "I would rather die on my feet than live on my knees." I very much admire the sentiment.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby Acon » Thu Mar 09, 2017 2:22 am

Haven't been able to read threads in this forum recently (too busy in these months) and just noticed this one. I am a Taiwanese and had lived there for 40 years. I know Taiwan and China very well in every aspect, including the political one. Honestly it very very hard to explain the nuance in the relationship between Taiwan and China. Nothing is simple between two nations, and if you are not a person who've grown up in that culture like me, it's almost impossible to get a comprehensive understanding or "feeling" of that kind of relationship.

What Leon's post in 4th Mar said is generally what I know and what I want to say. Business is business. When we are talking a specific product or brand we are talking about the quality/reputation of the products (hence the brand they represent), but not any political bias. The best robot arms manufacturer in the world Kuka now is Chinese owned, but they might still maintain their product quality if they make right decisions in the production process (manufacturing locations, procedure, etc.).

The accordion industry is the same. I believe that the craft skills are hard to transfer in a short period of time, and that's why I still buy a PIGINI, not a Hohner, since I trust more on skilled craftsmen in PIGINI's Italian factory. So it's about who make them, and like the title said, where they are made with the craft culture and tradition that can maintain the quality, but not who own the brand. If PIGINI get owned by some Chinese (or Korean, Brazilian, Taiwanese whoever you can imagine) company in the future but the manufacturing remains 100% the same in same place, the quality would be the same.

And as far as I know, there is no accordion industry in Taiwan. I know almost every accordion teacher/player in Taiwan and no one has told me that any single accordion was completely made in Taiwan. The labor in Taiwan was much more expensive than in China in this 20 yrs (but now it's changing). And of course I might be wrong.
Last edited by Acon on Fri Mar 10, 2017 4:03 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby colinm » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:11 am

I think you are correct, its about the skilled craftsmen who make them and the quality of the manufacturing process
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Re: Made in Taiwan.

Postby artelagro » Thu Mar 09, 2017 9:31 am

Don't you just love being part of a friendly Accordion forum discussing Accordion based topics.
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