Thumbs Up for CBA??

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debra
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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by debra » Tue Aug 02, 2016 7:06 pm

george garside wrote:on a CBA the normal stepped keyboard enables the thumb to be used on the inner rows without it catching on the other rows so it is usable to the choice of the individual player and depending on the needs of a particular part of a particular tune! For those not using the thumb I would suggest giving it a try here and there to see if it has any advantages for you as an individual. I would however not be dogmatic about it being best /worst or whatever!

On a 3 row british chromatic with the normal flat keyboard it is very rare to see anybody using the thumb because there is a danger of getting a thumfull of notes!. There is of course the other point that since you have 2 notes on every button there is less need to charge around all over the place and 4 digits manage very nicely!

george
My Morino Artiste XS has is "C-griff flach" meaning flat, not stepped, as used mainly in Switzerland. I have no issue in using the thumb on all rows (without hitting multiple buttons at once). The "flat" keyboard has advantages (like in glissando) and disadvantages (harder to feel what row you ar on).
I use both the flat keyboard and the stepped keyboard (on my other accordions).
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by noeledom » Tue Aug 02, 2016 10:02 pm

Hi..
Being self taught I never used any tutor and likely picked up all the worst habits along the way.. but I have settled on a systym of
fingering that uses the thumb on the key board and I play mostly on 3 rows but not always the 3 outer rows as some do...I tend to use the system where same fingering any key ie; 3 outer rows 3 middle rows or 3 inside rows and using this I seldom use my pinkie ... I now have an accordion with a groove for the thumb on the keyboard edge that I never use .... (old dog new tricks).. I have seen many systems used by some fantastic players so I guess whatever suits you best ...stick with it... time spent pondering if your doing it correctly is time wasted enjoying the music you play....

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by maugein96 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 11:18 pm

Hi noeledom,

Your own method appears similar to the system taught to Scottish CBA players. From memory I believe they are/were instructed to play using only three rows at a time, but with the same fingering regardless of the key. This obviously requires use of all 5 rows, and is the reason I had trouble trying to sell a 4 row some years ago.

However, you are right. All this talk about thumbs and technique does tend to be a waste of playing time.

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by dan » Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:56 pm

noeledom wrote: many systems used by some fantastic players so I guess whatever suits you best ...stick with it... time spent pondering if your doing it correctly is time wasted enjoying the music you play....
Probably true. But not all fingering choices involve a life-long commitment to a school of thought.
For example, the Galliano tutor includes four different fingerings for the D major scale pattern. :shock:
And as Donn pointed out, many players use the thumb, but only sparingly.

In which case it might be worthwhile to discuss the merits of one "move" versus another. One technique might be good for staccato bits, another for legato. One technique might be better for speed, another for phrasing. One technique might be uncomfortable at first, but superior with practice. One might involve hand contortions that are good to have in your bag of tricks, but only as a last resort.

After a lot of practice, I can play Galliano's C major fingering almost legato. It involves crossing the index finger under ring finger.
C D E F G A B C
1 2 3 4 2 3 4 5
But I dislike having to use middle finger on the outer row
A B C D E F G A
1 2 3 4 2 3 4 5
and I still write in my own fingerings whenever I'm asked to use the pinkie on the D row.

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by Matt Butcher » Fri Aug 19, 2016 7:59 pm

That Galliano fingering looked strange to me when I first looked at it, and I still don't get it, but that just shows my ignorance - who would you take advice from, me or Galliano? So it must be like that for a reason - do you know if it's aimed at achieving anything in particular? The possibilities of the instrument are endless really.

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by losthobos » Fri Aug 19, 2016 8:31 pm

I think I'd rather ask you Matt...looks like horrid fingering pattern..
Unless he's jumping to the A on the fifth row....to play the scale in two physically repeating patterns...
But even with that idea id play 12341234 or 12321232
Who knows...all depends on song and next chord anyways..
I don't confine myself with too many rules of thumb..
Right or wrong make it strong...when in doubt miss it out...

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debra
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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by debra » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:52 pm

Strange fingering indeed.
I play C D E F G A B C with 1 2 3 2 3 4 3 4 (instead of the last 4 you take 1 to continue with the next octave).
The rule is to reverse the same fingering to go down the scale but to go down I prefer C B A G F E D C as 4 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 or something like that: going down I use the thumb more than going up.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by dan » Sat Aug 20, 2016 8:08 am

debra wrote:I play C D E F G A B C with 1 2 3 2 3 4 3 4 (instead of the last 4 you take 1 to continue with the next octave).
This is much more intuitive and easier to play legato. :tup:
Matt Butcher wrote:That Galliano fingering looked strange to me when I first looked at it, and I still don't get it, but that just shows my ignorance - who would you take advice from, me or Galliano? So it must be like that for a reason - do you know if it's aimed at achieving anything in particular? The possibilities of the instrument are endless really.
Maybe to cover more ground from one hand position? Like the Dmitriev fingering, but for just three rows.
Might also be faster than some of the alternatives because there's only one crossing.
It's alright once you get used to it. Like playing an arpeggio, it's a quick shift of hand position more than a tuck under movement.
losthobos wrote: Who knows...all depends on song and next chord anyways..
That was certainly my experience with piano accordion. Scale practice was good for finding the notes in a tune, but no help for figuring out which finger to play them with.
maugein96 wrote:French players who only wanted to play in the musette style before the early 70s were schooled on the outside three rows only with the inside fourth row serving to avoid what is known in France as forked fingering. It was accepted in C system or Do1, as that system is also known in France, that the middle finger should not be used on the outside first row if possible, and students were encouraged to use the fourth row to minimise such situations.
I find this just as interesting as the thumb issue.

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by george garside » Sat Aug 20, 2016 10:40 am

debra wrote:Strange fingering indeed.
I play C D E F G A B C with 1 2 3 2 3 4 3 4 (instead of the last 4 you take 1 to continue with the next octave).
The rule is to reverse the same fingering to go down the scale but to go down I prefer C B A G F E D C as 4 2 1 3 2 1 2 1 or something like that: going down I use the thumb more than going up.

This is also my preferred way of doing it
george

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Re: Thumbs Up for CBA??

Post by dan » Tue Aug 23, 2016 7:03 pm

**deleted tongue-in-cheek ranking of scale fingerings
There are many ways to cross fingers on CBA and (frustrating though it is) I have no basis for evaluating them**
Last edited by dan on Sun Sep 25, 2016 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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