B system, C system

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Stephen
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Re: B system, C system

Post by Stephen » Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:34 pm

If you want to the Novikov piece on C-system ( sure it's possible on both B-system or C-system)


Novikov Viktor
French ballad "V(ladimir) Kosma"

Новиков Виктор
Французская баллада В.Космы

http://www.goldaccordion.com/noti/n" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Bayan sheet music archive:
http://www.goldaccordion.com/noti/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

online bayan sheet music (2 pages, downpage is an arrow, click for the 2nd page of sheet music pieces)
http://bayanac.narod.ru/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Stephen
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Re: B system, C system

Post by Stephen » Thu Jan 05, 2017 2:54 pm

Just want to add also the link to a video of the Novikov arrangement on the theme "Autumn leaves":
Versions by the bayan players Skliarov and Semionov:
http://www.music.volod.com.ua/novikov_vol2.php" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

You can buy the sheet music from this Ukraine website.

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debra
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Re: B system, C system

Post by debra » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:40 pm

Acon wrote:
debra wrote: I too like very much what some of the Russian virtuosi play, and I for instance got the "French Ballad" (based on Autumn Leaves) by Novikov and it is simply impossible on the C-system. I cannot reach the notes (it's not a matter of skill, but of physics).
Paul can you provide the sheet of that specific passage? It's hard to imagine a melody only playable in one system.
Check out http://files.goldaccordion.com/noti/N/N ... _Franc.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The beginning of the second page (marked as 16) is already a stretch, but in parts like the third line the page marked as 18 he has lost me...

Good luck with it!
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)

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Re: B system, C system

Post by Acon » Sat Jan 07, 2017 10:53 pm

Paul,

The sheet looks a little bit crazy for me, but aren't they are the same hard on both systems?

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Re: B system, C system

Post by maugein96 » Sat Jan 07, 2017 11:58 pm

Forgive my possible ignorance here, but if the stretches you are talking about relate to the treble clef, then is it a fingering issue? Looks like you need to play the triplets in the first bar on page 18 using a combination of your thumb and first finger for them all whilst using fingers 3,4, and 5 to sustain the chord? I have small hands but can quite easily span two octaves on French CBA. However I have no real experience of the type of music in the score. Looks like the maximum span is from F to D flat in the octave above, and the first bar looks as if it might be possible by 1-2-1, 2-1-2, 1-2-1, 2-1-2, then using 1 for the second bar.

I'll give it a try tomorrow when the household is not asleep. To be honest it's not the sort of score I would even normally attempt, but I'll give it a go if for no other reason than it looks interesting. I don't know anything about free bass, and if it is that aspect you are discussing I'll just crawl back into my corner.

Playing triplets with two fingers on CBA is standard fare with the old style of French musette that I am familiar with, although I'm not sure if it will work with the music concerned here.

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Re: B system, C system

Post by debra » Sun Jan 08, 2017 8:48 am

maugein96 wrote:Forgive my possible ignorance here, but if the stretches you are talking about relate to the treble clef, then is it a fingering issue? Looks like you need to play the triplets in the first bar on page 18 using a combination of your thumb and first finger for them all whilst using fingers 3,4, and 5 to sustain the chord? I have small hands but can quite easily span two octaves on French CBA. However I have no real experience of the type of music in the score. Looks like the maximum span is from F to D flat in the octave above, and the first bar looks as if it might be possible by 1-2-1, 2-1-2, 1-2-1, 2-1-2, then using 1 for the second bar.

I'll give it a try tomorrow when the household is not asleep. To be honest it's not the sort of score I would even normally attempt, but I'll give it a go if for no other reason than it looks interesting. I don't know anything about free bass, and if it is that aspect you are discussing I'll just crawl back into my corner.

Playing triplets with two fingers on CBA is standard fare with the old style of French musette that I am familiar with, although I'm not sure if it will work with the music concerned here.
The problems are twofold: 1) places where you need to sustain a low note while playing high chords. Whether you can reach them depends on which notes are in these chords and where they are on the keyboard. 2) places where you need to sustain a high note or even two or three while playing low notes. The third (double) line on page 18 is like this. You need to play a chord D-F-D which I cannot do with 3-4-5, I must use 2-3-5 , so I have only the thumb left for the fast triplets. Ouch... I have watched on YouTube and I don't know how but players do take these chords with 3-4-5. No way I can do that, and it's not because my instrument has larger buttons: it does not, it is a Russian bayan, just C-system.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)

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Re: B system, C system

Post by maugein96 » Sun Jan 08, 2017 10:07 am

Paul,

Was able to keep the chord down with 3-4-5, but would need to work out the best option for the triplets with 1 and 2. I couldn't say it came naturally or was particularly easy, but I suppose if I had to do it all the time I'd get there.

I used the Ferrero method to teach myself, which I'm sure you already know makes you work the little finger as a sort of compensation for the fact that you need to keep the thumb off the keyboard. I would have to say that I never worked through the whole method, but used it as a basis for development. We all know that any method which precludes the use of the thumb presents the student with considerable disadvantages in modern and classical music, but it also means that the hand and fingers are used to stretching more if the thumb is not in use.

Don't really want to get into thumb vs no thumb again, and to play the score concerned you might be better with 2 thumbs on your right hand! All I can say is I'm glad I don't have to try and play scores like that every day, and I don't think I'll be looking for any more like it.

Good luck to anybody who manages the tune as it is written.

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Re: B system, C system

Post by Nuuksu » Thu Apr 13, 2017 10:40 pm

I choosed B system when I switched from PA.

I switched because my first accordion teacher recommended. He told me "professionals play CBA and you should too" it was back when I was on second grade in childrens music school, of course I wasn't professional :D CBA was and is still quite rare in estonia due to political and ideologic reasons, but before WWII there were many CBA players in estonia. So in soviet time and after it was only for those who didn't care about politics or studied in some european or russian conservatory. I wasn't able to buy CBA until I finished childrens music school due to low budget. My first accordion teacher passed away when I was in third grade and after that my second teacher wasn't interested at all from switching to CBA. Actually my first teacher started with CBA when he was young but switched to PA because there wasn't any CBA teacher in estonia after war. We planned to learn B system because it was main system in Russian and used Weltmeister and Royal Standard CBA's were readily available. So my first CBA was Royal Standard Romance B-system CBA. I am quite happy actually that I choosed B system. Since I learned CBA myself I considered switching to C system from B because I like triple voice musette and french musette instruments are mostly C, thankfully I discovered dutch accordion players and fact that they used mostly B system :tup: so my day was saved and no switching needed, some time later I bought used CBA from netherlands.

I think that both systems are completely equal because they are just mirrored. It is very unlikely that there are compositions that are playable only on one system.

I don't avoid using thumb, I use it always when I need :) I think there are mainly two types of technique - four finger and five finger - both are used in both systems, difference is only which one is used mostly due to systems mirrored nature. There is actually couple books published for five finger technique for B system - sorry no english version available

А. Полетаев - Пятипальцевая аппликатура на баяне - http://ale07.ru/music/notes/song/bayan/applikatura5.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Ю. Бардин - Обучение игре на баяне по пятипальцевой аппликатуре - http://ale07.ru/music/notes/song/bayan/obuchenie_5a.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

They are downloadable, click on "Скачать".

I don't know but I suppose that there is a lot more virtuoso, analytical, technical and pedagogic repertoire material available for B system. Correct me if I'm wrong Russian bajan masters have published a lot in the past and still do. Always when I try to search etudes or other tecnical material for C system I almost don't get anything, but for B systems there is whole library from material for beginners to conservatory level. Probably many of us know F.Lips - Art of Playng Bajan, there is actually many similar books - http://ale07.ru/music/notes/song/bayan/posobia.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Etudes for childrens music school, book for every grade and every book consist of sections devited for different technique, These are very practical for beginners! - http://ale07.ru/music/notes/song/bayan/ ... ehnika.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Lot of general etude books - http://ale07.ru/music/notes/song/bayan/etudy.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Beginner tutor books(there are also russian PA tutors), pedagogic, technical and other(old and downloadable ones) - http://ale07.ru/music/notes/song/bayan/sam_bayan.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Virtuoso compositions - http://ale07.ru/music/notes/song/bayan/antologia.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
And so on.
These are old materials, there are russian book shops that sell also new books.

I recommend to look around further on ale07 site, I don't know exact russian copyright laws but seems that they honor them because they publish only old and possibly out of print books - http://ale07.ru/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

If anybody is brave enough to look into some of these books beaware that there are two type fingering marking system.
1)Fingers are marked from 1-4 and thumb is marked with russian letter "б" it is used when four finger technique is mainly used.
2)Fingers are marked from 1-5, this one is probably mostly used in newer books.
I prefer second type, it is not so confusing if one don't speak russian. I remember my horrible mistake with first type when I started with CBA, remember if you see "1" try to figure out is it really thumb or just index finger!

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