PA keyboard fingering



PA keyboard fingering

Postby Pianoman1 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 10:17 am

I have been told that PA fingering is different to piano fingering and that the thumb can and should be used on black notes where
appropriate. This is new to me what are the views of the forum on this
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby Corsaire » Fri Jan 27, 2017 11:01 am

Having stopped playing for some years, I have looked at some of the music I used to be able to play - in particular noting the fingering for PA. In "Perles de Musette", my teacher marked in the fingering and looking at it now, I find it hard to believe I actually played using that fingering.

Perhaps his fingering for PA is a bit strange because he's a CBA player.
Last edited by Corsaire on Sat Jan 28, 2017 5:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby debra » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:13 pm

Pianoman1 wrote:I have been told that PA fingering is different to piano fingering and that the thumb can and should be used on black notes where
appropriate. This is new to me what are the views of the forum on this

On the PA using the thumb on the black notes is about as (un)comfortable as doing it on the piano, so no difference there.
The difference in fingering stems mostly from the different orientation of the hand and wrist. On a PA, especially in the higher notes, it is often easier to go over the little finger, so you can for instance play C-D-E-F-G-Gis-A using 1-2-3-4-5-4-5 rather than using 1-2-3-1-2-3-4 or 1-2-3-4-1-2-3. On a piano you might do the same two octaves higher but not in the same octave as on a PA. Similarly, when going to really low notes you might G-F-E-D-C-B-Bes-A on a PA with 5-4-3-2-1-3-2-1 and really low on the piano perhaps 5-4-3-2-1-2-3-2. It's all because of hand position. The "standard" fingering we probably learned and which is identical for PA and piano works for the center region of the keyboard but it is towards the extremes that different fingering becomes less uncomfortable depending on whether it's on a PA or a piano.
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby Pianoman1 » Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:59 pm

Thanks I was told by my teacher that using the thumb this way ensured knowing where the notes where
I was not aware I had this problem I am getting used to the slightly different keyboard on a 96 bass but this, to me is just getting used to anew instrument
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby Glenn » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:23 pm

I come from decades of piano playing and it's taken me some time to accept my teachers advice to depart from the obvious piano fingering. Not that I do it just to be awkward but sometimes I find the accordion runs work better with non piano fingering. In particular I use a lot more 1-2-1-2-1-2-3 runs which means less crossovers and a more accurate playing (for me at any rate).


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1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby EMan » Sat Jan 28, 2017 1:57 pm

Paul, interesting after looking at that, I find I would be quite uncomfortable with the fingering below (I play PA), but of course, if you're comfortable with something then you should do it.

[*On a PA, especially in the higher notes, it is often easier to go over the little finger, so you can for instance play C-D-E-F-G-Gis-A using 1-2-3-4-5-4-5 ]

On that string of notes, I would prefer 1-2-3-1-2-3-4.

I also have NP using the thumb on black keys. I might add however, that is usually when playing a chord. When playing a run, chromatic, scale, etc, I don't think I have ever used the thumb on a black key.
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby JerryPH » Sat Jan 28, 2017 2:32 pm

EMan wrote:[*On a PA, especially in the higher notes, it is often easier to go over the little finger, so you can for instance play C-D-E-F-G-Gis-A using 1-2-3-4-5-4-5 ]

On that string of notes, I would prefer 1-2-3-1-2-3-4.

I also have NP using the thumb on black keys. I might add however, that is usually when playing a chord. When playing a run, chromatic, scale, etc, I don't think I have ever used the thumb on a black key.


You can tell that Ed and I come from a similar background in methodology because that is exactly the same thing I was going to say and the same fingering that I would have used (glad I updated the page before posting, it would have looked funny to have 2 posts so similar... lol)
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby Teriodin » Sat Mar 18, 2017 11:44 am

Never having played Piano, it is interesting to find this discussion and discover that there seems to be no 'right way' to finger a PA. :mrgreen:

I've been practising using 1-2-3-1-2-3-4-5 for octaves after seeing it in an accordion book, but when I play tunes I like for fun I am basically making it up as I go along, as long as I hit the right notes.

(Having played Concertina before trying PA, I now understand why my grandfather preferred a CBA. Too expensive for me, though. )
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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby george garside » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:12 pm

at one time piano fingering was very rigidly taught '';according to the book'' but I think many piano teachers are now more relaxed about it!. So anyone coming from a piano to a box can either continue what they were doing or experiment with other fingering patterns particularly taking into account the needs of particular parts of particular tunes and right hand chords etc.

The big difference between piano and accordion is not in the fingering pattern but in how the fingers are used! on a piano its how the keys are pressed that matters and on an accordion its how they are let go that matters and making that adjustment can be difficult for some piano players.

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Re: PA keyboard fingering

Postby JerryPH » Sat Mar 18, 2017 1:37 pm

Strange. I never had an issue using the thumb on the black keys. If it was needed, it was used. There was never any discussion about this at the conservatory, and yes I was given many pieces where using the thumb was mandatory to be able to play the notes or chords as they were written. Every scale started with the thumb, white or black key, same for any given arppeggio.

Even today, I do this and again, there is no thought about it. When needed, the thumb is used.
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