Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

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Stephen
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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by Stephen » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:32 pm

You are right about the fun a DIY learner can have in "hors piste" playing techniques.
Breaking the rules is normal practice in Music and art. It pleases the Muses.
Mozart was known for his wild piano playing and improvisations, breaking and thus creating new harmony and style.

CBA unisonoric bellows movements however are very different to bisonoric melodeon dancing tunes.

You can try to imitate that dance like character, but CBA is more fluid and legato intended. That is the historic evolution of the accordion adapted to classical music.

Anyhow CBA sets you free from a strict diatonic genre.

These are all factors to be analysed before making the choice.

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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by JonathanC » Mon Feb 13, 2017 3:52 pm

Stephen wrote: CBA unisonoric bellows movements however are very different to bisonoric melodeon dancing tunes.
Of course, I wasn't meaning to suggest you can play a CBA (or PA) with the same bellows technique as a melodeon.
They are both different instrument and require different styles.

Typically I use mine for mainly vocal accompaniment and the melodeon for tunes/dancing.
But that wouldn't stop me form using a CBA for a dance tune if I thought it played better. (or vice versa)

Horses for courses really.

but as Tom points out in his opening post
TomBR wrote: I don't want to restart the PA vs CBA debate that's been run so often in this forum and I'm certainly not trying to persuade anyone else to change, but I thought some observations at this stage might be of some interest.
Tom
I assume he would include diatonic boxes in the statement too! ;-)

Thought I would add my observations too.
Cheers!
:-)

Stephen
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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by Stephen » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:04 pm

Your comments are very welcome, every input is usefull.

And as the Greek Muses (and politicians...) know, cheating is part of the game...
It's textbook...

(personally I'm a little sceptical about learners or starters playing two or even three different layouts the same period. Takes a lot of the brain, maybe mine is only adapted to simplicity and serial monogamy :ch)

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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by JonathanC » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:18 pm

Maybe, everyones different, it's what makes the world go around.

However it would be wrong to assume someone starting with a cba is also a beginner or new starter on another instrument, they may well be quite accomplished and fancy expanding their repertoire, ;-) you never know! {}

Stephen
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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by Stephen » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:28 pm

On a new accordion, in a way everybody is a novice.

From my past talks with accordion teachers, I heard they prefer blanco pages, people without prior piano playing past.
Starters without any music instruments experience progress faster.
It takes longer to forget or correct PA or melodeon muscle memory, than to work with fresh accordion starters.
If the backpack is empty, less kilos to climb.

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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by george garside » Mon Feb 13, 2017 4:44 pm

Stephen wrote:You are right about the fun a DIY learner can have in "hors piste" playing techniques.
Breaking the rules is normal practice in Music and art. It pleases the Muses.
Mozart was known for his wild piano playing and improvisations, breaking and thus creating new harmony and style.

CBA unisonoric bellows movements however are very different to bisonoric melodeon dancing tunes.

You can try to imitate that dance like character, but CBA is more fluid and legato intended. That is the historic evolution of the accordion adapted to classical music.

Anyhow CBA sets you free from a strict diatonic genre.

These are all factors to be analysed before making the choice.
by bisonoric dancing tunes I presume you mean tunes played strictly 'on the row' on a bisonoric ? DGbox ,or of course on any one row, with the resultant constant change of bellows direction . That is only one small part of bisonoric playing and some go to great lengths to cross the rows in order to reduce the number of necessary reversals. The 'club' system popular in mainland Europe enables long runs of notes in the same bellows direction

The British Chromatic system made famous by Sir Jimmy Shand offers a choice both long runs in one direction or maximising on the ins and outs when required, This system whilst often wrongly refered to as diatonic is in fact chromatic and has anything up to 120 bass. There was even a Hohner Gola version!

On the other hand it is perfectly feasible to play a piano or continental box with the same bounce and rhythm as a diatonic particularly if the bass is kept simple rather than arty farty!

George ( who plays and teaches all 3 systems)

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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by Stephen » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:08 pm

George, if you play 3 layouts including British chromatic system, you are a genius and deserve the nobel prize for squeeze boxes.

The Atzarin website shows the layout of British chromatic in detail, yet mentions some remarks.
How many accordionists play British chromatic worlwide?

I'm happy with my CBA c-system. It's for life, my little 60 bass will fit nicely in my coffin or will be passed on to family or friend. Time will tell...

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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by george garside » Mon Feb 13, 2017 8:58 pm

Stephen, I also like the continental chromatic and personally prefer it to a piano box, but for pure satisfaction there is, to me, nothing quite like the satisfaction that comes from playing the BCC# with little figner movement and just a couple of inches of bellows movement!

george ;)

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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by Stephen » Mon Feb 13, 2017 10:01 pm

The day will come you'll have to give some answers to the good lord, why you haven't opened the bellows more. :D

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Re: Another crossover - PA to CBA two months in

Post by george garside » Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:13 am

Stephen, playing different accordion systems is ,to me, far less complicated and requires far less learning than playing different instruments eg accordion and fiddle or accordion and brass or woodwind etc etc. The 3 systems I play all have exactly the same left hand, the same general feel and the continental & piano boxes exactly the same bellows action ( the British Chromatic has the same bellows general action with the added ins and outs whilst still being the soul of the instrument(. the piano and continental have black and white notes ( I know some continentals have all white) simply rearranged on the 'keyboard'. The british chromatic is a bit different in that each button plays 2 notes but with accidentals in both directions the ins and outs are considerably less than on a one row diatonic box.

The absolute key to playing all three or just the first two is to learn and practice scales so all of them can be played at speed with aabsolutely no conscious thought ( there isn't any time for it!) It also helps to play the same tunes on all systems rather than having different tunes for different types of box. Just think of scales as main roads along which a tune travels so that whether you are reading it or just thinking it the brain automatically sends the right instructions down the arm to operate the fingers. That's how it works anad for what its worth muscles do not have a memory! - its all in the brain!

george ;)

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