Fantini fraud

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lata1234
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Fantini fraud

Post by lata1234 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 8:48 am

Dear all,

last year I paid in advance for CP 12 accordeon but Mr. Fantini do
not answer any of my calls or emails any more.
Can somebody help me to get in contact with Mr Leandro Fantini?
Now it looks like I will have to start a legal claim against him.

As I heard there are some other people all over the world with the same problem.

Regards
Drazen
Zapresic, Croatia

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by debra » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:17 pm

I assume you tried +39 0721 403866 and info@fantiniaccordions.com?
The last time we heard complaints was about Borsini and that was shortly before the company folded.
Let's hope Fantini isn't the next one to go out of business. Bad press is certainly not something a company wants... so if they are doing well they really should be more responsive.
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lata1234
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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by lata1234 » Sat Mar 10, 2018 6:57 pm

I tried all 5 telephone numbers that you can find over Fantini accordeons.
It seems that they move a lot in last years.
Email adress is not working too, every email come back as undelivered.
Last contact was at 04.01.2018., he calls me and promise that CP12 should be finished until end of January.
That was our last contact.

I assume that I do not have to explain how disapointed I am.
In my fifties finally I order for myself a custom build new accordeon.
My first new one.

For me (please believe me) it is not about money, I was so happy about my new instrument...

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by debra » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:35 pm

This does not bode well... Especially the smaller brands are struggling in an increasingly global market.
Lesson learnt: do not pay in advance...
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Stephen Hawkins
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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Sat Mar 10, 2018 11:32 pm

Sorry that you are experiencing some difficulty in contacting Fantini. It is a sickening feeling when things like this happen, and I truly hope that you are able to resolve this issue satisfactorily.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by wout » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:37 pm

I send an empty email about 2 hours ago and it seems to have arrived maybe you should give it another go. They seem reputable and also produce accordions for various reputable dealers it seems

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by JerryPH » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:45 pm

Someone should send them a link to this thread and any other thread that shows that they are being lax in serving their customers... nothing will kick a company faster in to action than them knowing they are being watched by a global community... except unless they are on their way to bankruptcy, in which case... they don't care and nothing said will help.
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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by lata1234 » Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:27 pm

Tried again with emails but it comes back undelivered.
I tried to contact his dealers all over world and it seems that all of them have the same
problem at this time.
I have Mr Leandro cell phone number and it rings but nobody answer my calls.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by colinm » Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:09 pm

You could try emailing Emilio Allodi at Allodi Accordions in London, I believe he deals with Fantini
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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by TomBR » Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:28 pm

colinm wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 7:09 pm
You could try emailing Emilio Allodi at Allodi Accordions in London, I believe he deals with Fantini
By all accounts Emilio is a good man to deal with. He's also extremely busy, I'd think a phone call might be better, it's easy to make the wrong conclusion if an email is not answered!

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:39 pm

I visited the Fantini Company website last night. The only link that is not working is the "News" one, which leads me to suppose that they may be hiding something. I could, of course, be wrong, but it may be prudent to assume that some difficulty exists with this company.

Kind Regards & Sincere Best Wishes,

Stephen.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by JerryPH » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:04 am

lata1234 wrote:
Sun Mar 11, 2018 5:27 pm
Tried again with emails but it comes back undelivered.
I tried to contact his dealers all over world and it seems that all of them have the same
problem at this time.
I have Mr Leandro cell phone number and it rings but nobody answer my calls.
He had NO problems responding to my email asking for price on a PA Bayan. I suggest you try another email address and see if he responds. You can also try calling from another phone line or calling in with Caller ID disabled. If he does not, you are selectively being ignored, which is not a very honest thing to do. If he does respond, then try to resolve things, but do come back here and let us know what is happening.

This came in this morning:
"Good morning Mr. Jerry
Thank you for your e-mail
The Mod. CP / 18 / C / 56-Bayan the price Euro 7.200,00 shipping included
I'm waiting if you want more information, OK?
Greetings
Leandro Fantini"
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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by Geronimo » Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:26 am

The Fantini accordions home page shows curtains on front page, the "News" section is empty. Not exactly an encouraging picture, but checking the Internet Archive actually shows that this has been the state since at least 2016. So actually a sign of unfortunate design choices and wanting web presence maintenance than anything relating to the current state of things.

So I cannot state anything relevant to the current state of affairs but thought I'd mention it to avoid people ascribing more relevance to the web page as an indicator.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by lata1234 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:14 pm

I spoked with Mr Alodi, he is very nice guy but can not help me. He can not get in touch with Mr Fantini too.

This is what comes back when I send an email:

"""This is the mail system at host relay.mailchannels.net.

I'm sorry to have to inform you that your message could not
be delivered to one or more recipients. It's attached below.

For further assistance, please send mail to postmaster.

If you do so, please include this problem report. You can
delete your own text from the attached returned message.

The mail system

<info@fantiniaccordions.com>: host mail.fantiniaccordions.com[194.242.61.17]
refused to talk to me: 421 Downstream server error"""

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by lata1234 » Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:15 pm

Today I have a message from Jean-Sébastien Hellard over Facebook:

Hello, I'm an accordeonist from France. I saw your message about Fantini. I am in same situation with Fantini. I was in Italia last week and I start a legal claim against him to the Police of Pesaro. In my case the accordion ist almost finished but Fantini didn't pay his subcontractors. Best regards

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by Geronimo » Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:39 pm

lata1234 wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 2:15 pm
Today I have a message from Jean-Sébastien Hellard over Facebook:

Hello, I'm an accordeonist from France. I saw your message about Fantini. I am in same situation with Fantini. I was in Italia last week and I start a legal claim against him to the Police of Pesaro. In my case the accordion ist almost finished but Fantini didn't pay his subcontractors. Best regards
This has the smell of a business running out of money and trying to patch up holes with holes by finishing old orders using the money from new orders. Sounds more like business failure than fraud to me. It sounds like they'd like to be able to sustain operations. I'd not be overly surprised to read about insolvency procedures put into place eventually, and the question is how and if they'll recover.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:18 pm

Geronimo,

Using payments from current orders to fulfil old orders is the very definition of fraud, as is continuing to accept new payments knowing that the orders will not or may not be honoured.

The question you pose: "how and if they'll recover" is probably of less interest to the poor customers who have been skinned by them, and who may receive only a fraction of what they are owed. My personal sympathies are with the people who may have been fleeced by Fantini.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by Geronimo » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:53 am

Stephen Hawkins wrote:
Mon Mar 12, 2018 11:18 pm
Geronimo,

Using payments from current orders to fulfil old orders is the very definition of fraud,
Not every enterprise has cash reserves large enough to meet all its obligations in case of catastrophic failure.
as is continuing to accept new payments knowing that the orders will not or may not be honoured.
"will not": sure. When running a business into the ground (without planning to do so), the process is gradual and hope dies last. Once you don't even have the ability to produce stuff anymore, of course accepting further payments is fraud.
My personal sympathies are with the people who may have been fleeced by Fantini.
Well, most of them might be out of money, possibly temporarily. It sounds like Fantini may be out of an existence. There aren't really winners in an insolvency if that is what this turns out to be.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 pm

Geronimo,

You are quite correct in saying that there are no winners in an insolvency, but continuing to accept payments when a company is insolvent is a questionable practice.

This case, incidentally, is not the first one of its kind to be brought to our attention on these pages. The last one I can recall involved a professional musician from Canada, who sent his $10,000 instrument back to the manufacturer in Italy for remedial work. The last I heard he was trying to get his instrument released by the receivers.

Bankruptcy Legislation is designed to protect companies in financial difficulties, but who protects the innocent parties who lose money through no fault of their own? They may, if they are fortunate, get a small fraction of their losses back, but only after other matters have been settled. Not good enough !!!

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Fantini fraud

Post by debra » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:23 am

Stephen Hawkins wrote:
Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:41 pm
...
This case, incidentally, is not the first one of its kind to be brought to our attention on these pages. The last one I can recall involved a professional musician from Canada, who sent his $10,000 instrument back to the manufacturer in Italy for remedial work. The last I heard he was trying to get his instrument released by the receivers.
...
That case was when Borsini went belly up. We never heard whether he got his accordion back...
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