C system 5 row chromatic wanted

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Robert Watters
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C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by Robert Watters » Mon Aug 27, 2018 7:25 pm

C system chromatic wanted:-
Must be 5 row.
I don't mind if it's a bit tatty as I can only go to about 200 pounds.
Something that's playable or minor repair needed.
I want to graduate from the concertina!
I'm in North Norfolk but may be able to pick up depending on location.
Regards Robert

maugein96
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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by maugein96 » Mon Aug 27, 2018 10:46 pm

Hi Robert,

Don't want to dishearten you in any way whatsoever, but you'd probably need to triple your budget to have half a chance of getting a playable C system box in the UK. There are simply not enough of them around to be able to pick them up for that kind of money. You might get lucky on Gumtree, but probably not on eBay.

Please bear in mind that a full refurb on a 3 or 4 voice 5 row chromatic will typically cost you about £600, unless you can do it yourself. I've never seen a box for sale for £200 for a very long time. In fact you wouldn't have been able to get one for that money 40 years ago, when I seem to remember a pretty rough one on sale up here in Scotland for £350.

Buying unseen and/or untried is definitely not recommended, as a lot of good looking instruments look like a knackered old meccano set when they're opened up.

I wish you good luck with your quest, and if you manage to pick one up for £200, my advice would be to offer £198 and go and buy a lottery ticket with the other £2. You never know, you might just defy the odds twice in the one day!

Robert Watters
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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by Robert Watters » Tue Aug 28, 2018 11:52 am

Thanks for the info. I just missed out on one that went for less than 150 on ebay, I tried to snipe, but my computer threw a delay wobbly. It needed a little work so I was a bit p*****d off. It may have been junk or it might have been the exception that proves the rule. My plan B is to fix my old english Lachenal concertina (I have a better one that's staying) and use that to raise a couple of hundred towards a reasonable Box of the accordion variety.

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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by maugein96 » Tue Aug 28, 2018 8:47 pm

Hi Robert,

eBay is probably the cheapest option, and I haven't really been following accordion prices on there for some time. Years ago I used to use a sniping tool (don't know if they're still on the go) and they often worked, but weren't infallible. What did happen was you need to give the sniping site your eBay login password, and my eBay account was subsequently hacked. Caused me all sorts of problems, so I wouldn't recommend using them. I never bought anything accordion related on eBay.

Don't know who buys all those dirt cheap accordions on eBay, and I suppose some of them that are beyond repair might end up on static displays or in a skip. You might get lucky right enough if you keep watching.

Keep an eye on Gumtree as well, as a lot of boxes on there are just offered by people wondering what to do with an old accordion they've been landed with. You'd get a PA for £200 without too much trouble, but CBAs are pretty rare here, as you will be aware.

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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by debra » Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:14 pm

I want to support the warning here that 200 pounds for a 5 row CBA is not very likely to get you an instrument you will be very happy with. I have made the comparison before: consider buying a used accordion like buying a used car. When a new accordion costs between 2.000 and 20.000 pounds, and a car costs between 10000 and 100.000... you are asking for the equivalent of a 1.000 pound car. What do you expect for that amount of money? Well... that says something about what to expect from a 200 pound accordion.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl

artidots
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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by artidots » Thu Sep 20, 2018 3:12 pm

My wife has a very nice 4 row Guistozzi C system she is thinking of selling but she wants £1200 for it I'm afraid. (near King's Lynn)

Rob
Rob.T. Originally, but no longer for health reasons, a Fantini SP30 T PA. Now:shared Weltmeister Rubin PA. Dino Baffetti Oakwood Binci D/G. Castagnari Lilly D/G. Wheatstone 48b Aeola E. Concertina. Wolverton 30b C/G Anglo Concertina.

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Johnathan
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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by Johnathan » Mon Oct 08, 2018 12:02 pm

I have just updated my post from 2017 offering a Hohner Nova 72 for sale. I originally was asking £850 for it but have reduced the price to £650 as we are looking to move house and need to downsize. At this price it is half the price of a new one, and offers much better value than the chinese and eastern european boxes that are what you are likely to find on sale in music shops at this price level. Though as others have pointed out, you will probably struggle to fine many new lower end button accordions as the general musical instrument shops tend to stock piano accordions if they stock accordions at all. I just checked the Hob Goblin website and they are offering a second hand Hohner Nova 72 for £999 at their Canterbury store. They are not selling any new CBAs. So you can understand why few second hand instruments come on the market in the UK.

Kind regards
Johnathan
Kind regards

Johnathan
Zero Sette Grand Concert Bayan Convertor
Beltuna Euro IV CBA
Hohner Nova 72 CBA
Roland FR1Xb
Joseph Carrel Accordina

Robert Watters
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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by Robert Watters » Sun Oct 21, 2018 12:57 pm

Thanks for all the replies.
I did manage after about 2 months to get lucky and got a playable (not perfect, but good to learn on) Hagstrom Maestoso with a nice tone for #300 (#= pounds, USA keyboard) Yesterday.
A Lady was down-sizing. Just getting the feel of it.
5 row C system. Dry tuned.
It took a lot of internet trawling, emails and a few video demonstrations to achieve my goal but I did have to borrow and beg from the other Hag in my life.
Oops, sorry dear! This joke has worn very thin already!
I can live with its minor faults to my ears until "Captain Pugwash" is mastered and becomes boring.

This guy on YT is good but very slow and basic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g94zcw ... VPA&t=1642
Any tips on a good book for learners (I can cope with French) or Videos on the net for someone with a good ear and fairly basic music theory, or anyone North Norfolk who could pass on a few tips.
Folk and Classical are my main likes, but playing will obviously be restricted to simple stuff at first.
E&OE
Best wishes to all
Robert

maugein96
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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by maugein96 » Sun Oct 21, 2018 1:47 pm

Robert,

Check out this Swiss guy who has about 10 free lessons on You Tube. He is from the French speaking part of Switzerland, and plays both French and Italian made accordions.

Now, you'll see that he doesn't use his right thumb much, but I can assure you that if you can master the techniques he shows you with the fingering he uses then you'll be well on your way to a solid technique. You can always bring the thumb on and adapt the fingering later, to whatever suits you.

When you hit the linked page you should also see a list of other French players who offer CBA lessons, including demonstrations of bass playing, and it might be as well to study those as well. If there are any fingering anomalies just use whatever fingering suits you best. I'll reiterate that there is no "standard" CBA fingering. If you have a method book then the author will expect you to use his/her fingering, but you'll find that another book uses different fingering altogether, and so forth. People with fingers like sausages as well as those with digits like dry sticks all just get on and play, and if you cannot manage it one way, then there are usually other options.

Jean Yves Sixt is a Swiss professional recording artiste as well as a teacher. Some people would no doubt tell you that his particular system is old fashioned, but so is the accordion itself. Try it out and if it doesn't suit you, then it never cost you anything. Just remember when he is talking about "Si", he means B, and not C. French use, do, re, mi, fah, sol, la, si, do. "Bemol" is flat and "dièse" is sharp. The lessons are not particularly aimed at beginners, so if it all seems a bit too advanced you might want to start off with a method book. Unfortunately I cannot recommend any particular method, as they are all different in content and fingering. The majority of those available today are written for PA and adapted for CBA, and the old dedicated CBA books are hard to come by. There aren't all that many with English translation, and I would tend to avoid those which come in various parts, as invariably you'll have trouble sourcing the next volume when you're ready to move on.

Good luck with it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIw0aVo8Fuw

artidots
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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by artidots » Sun Oct 21, 2018 2:01 pm

Robert, we found that a really good learning resource was this one:

http://diouflo.com/english/chromatic_ac ... method.php

Yes not cheap I know, but included is generous help via emails etc, and lots of extra free tunes with tabs from the website. The book is excellent and starts from the beginning with attractive, mostly traditional Breton dance tunes.

Highly recommended (no personal connection of course).

Good luck with the box, sounds a good buy.

Rob
Rob.T. Originally, but no longer for health reasons, a Fantini SP30 T PA. Now:shared Weltmeister Rubin PA. Dino Baffetti Oakwood Binci D/G. Castagnari Lilly D/G. Wheatstone 48b Aeola E. Concertina. Wolverton 30b C/G Anglo Concertina.

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Re: C system 5 row chromatic wanted

Post by fphlpsnrg » Fri Nov 02, 2018 10:14 pm

debra wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 9:14 pm
I want to support the warning here that 200 pounds for a 5 row CBA is not very likely to get you an instrument ...
One of the issues I have faced on several occasions from prospective students is the cost of even a "studio" model CBA. Used instruments, especially one of the complexity of any fixed reed instrument, compound the issue of potentially faulty components. The unfortunate reality that we live with is that these are hand-made instruments, every key and every reed must be hand-set. The labor involved is many hours multiple to that involved in the manufacture of an automobile. I have no answers or suggestions.

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