Wireless Stereo

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:05 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:56 am
Keymn wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:35 am
Did you check your junk mailbox...? :D
I went to there websight...contact us...
I am sure not to invest in this, but sounds good!
Yup, I always do. So you are convinced that this is not the product for you. Is this because of your other wireless setup or because you find fault in this design?

I'll try their website again, but tonight. For now... time to get ready for work. :)
I would try it If it is proven reception like the G10. Small in design is a plus. You can keep it strapped to the bottom of right shoulder strap. The receiver velcroed on mixer or arranger. But I would get good quality 6”/12” cables ( a hard fine)and angle plug for accordion. I didn’t price it yet, is it under $150.00?
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by JerryPH » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:27 pm

Keymn wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:05 pm
I would try it If it is proven reception like the G10. Small in design is a plus. You can keep it strapped to the bottom of right shoulder strap. The receiver velcroed on mixer or arranger. But I would get good quality 6”/12” cables ( a hard fine)and angle plug for accordion. I didn’t price it yet, is it under $150.00?
It's $150 Canadian, around $120US, so yes, well under.
I sent an email if I could try before I buy, since I am about 20 minutes away from them by car. I think that maybe it's one of those backyard/garage/home companies, so they might not want to respond to me.

I'll try again later tonight.
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:29 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:27 pm
Keymn wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 12:05 pm
I would try it If it is proven reception like the G10. Small in design is a plus. You can keep it strapped to the bottom of right shoulder strap. The receiver velcroed on mixer or arranger. But I would get good quality 6”/12” cables ( a hard fine)and angle plug for accordion. I didn’t price it yet, is it under $150.00?
It's $150 Canadian, around $120US, so yes, well under.
I sent an email if I could try before I buy, since I am about 20 minutes away from them by car. I think that maybe it's one of those backyard/garage/home companies, so they might not want to respond to me.

I'll try again later tonight.
They kept responding quickly. You are our eyes and ears on this to try it out. Wow, you are that close to dealer!
Right now I am freezing spending until I get more established here in Arizona. Let me know of results, if any. Besides, I think I have enough gadgets to open a music store. :lol:
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Geronimo » Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:13 am

Keymn wrote:
Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:29 pm
Besides, I think I have enough gadgets to open a music store. :lol:
As long as you don't have enough to barricade a music store, there is still room left.

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by JerryPH » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:17 am

I have to give my thanks to Torch for first posting about these... good find!

Well gents, I have in person met the man that makes the JD X-Labs X-100 transceiver set and picked up one of these sets. Over the next few days I will be playing more with them, but let me share with you my first impressions:

First... this is a small company, but let me tell you that the owner is super nice, very sincere, understands VERY well the limitations of his product and is very up front about them. I was invited to his home to check them out at my leisure.

Second... in his basement we had the chance to do some very quick testing and even with the latency of a MIDI piano keyboard going through a computer based MIDI keyboard, going through an audio interface, through a set of preamps, in to the transmitter, to the receiver to a pair of Bose headphones, there was no latency that I was able to discern.

Thirdly... the gentleman (Jonathan), is offering me a couple of weeks of testing time and if I am not satisfied, I can return them for a full refund.

So far, all I have done is connect the receiver to my camcorder and walked all around my house on the floor above and the floor below and there was zero drop in sound quality or performance, so I am comfortable in believing that they have a 100 foot range.

I plan to have 2 main uses for this setup... first with a lavalier to connect directly to my camcorder and second, because this is a STEREO transmitter, a way to send a stereo signal from my FR-8X or the BK-7M arranger (that the 8X is connected to), to the camcorder or mixer. If this all works out, I may even get a second set so that I can have 2 stereo signals all sent to 4 separate channels to my mixer in to my DAW to offer me ultimate separation and control.

I am not a pro, I don't need the highest in quality or greatest distances, so this kit, at least initially, looks perfect for me. If you are thinking that you are in the same category as me, consider looking at these, because this man is doing this more as a personal hobby than anything else and he has a fulltime job and makes these in small number limited runs.

However, he is committed to offering quality service, and for people in North America, this is currently the lowest priced way you can get a stereo signal from A to B, and if the reliability matches... it is going to be THE set to own. :)

Pics, demos and maybe even a nice YouTube video to come!
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:25 am

JerryPH wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:17 am
I have to give my thanks to Torch for first posting about these... good find!

Well gents, I have in person met the man that makes the JD X-Labs X-100 transceiver set and picked up one of these sets. Over the next few days I will be playing more with them, but let me share with you my first impressions:

First... this is a small company, but let me tell you that the owner is super nice, very sincere, understands VERY well the limitations of his product and is very up front about them. I was invited to his home to check them out at my leisure.

Second... in his basement we had the chance to do some very quick testing and even with the latency of a MIDI piano keyboard going through a computer based MIDI keyboard, going through an audio interface, through a set of preamps, in to the transmitter, to the receiver to a pair of Bose headphones, there was no latency that I was able to discern.

Thirdly... the gentleman (Jonathan), is offering me a couple of weeks of testing time and if I am not satisfied, I can return them for a full refund.

So far, all I have done is connect the receiver to my camcorder and walked all around my house on the floor above and the floor below and there was zero drop in sound quality or performance, so I am comfortable in believing that they have a 100 foot range.

I plan to have 2 main uses for this setup... first with a lavalier to connect directly to my camcorder and second, because this is a STEREO transmitter, a way to send a stereo signal from my FR-8X or the BK-7M arranger (that the 8X is connected to), to the camcorder or mixer. If this all works out, I may even get a second set so that I can have 2 stereo signals all sent to 4 separate channels to my mixer in to my DAW to offer me ultimate separation and control.

I am not a pro, I don't need the highest in quality or greatest distances, so this kit, at least initially, looks perfect for me. If you are thinking that you are in the same category as me, consider looking at these, because this man is doing this more as a personal hobby than anything else and he has a fulltime job and makes these in small number limited runs.

However, he is committed to offering quality service, and for people in North America, this is currently the lowest priced way you can get a stereo signal from A to B, and if the reliability matches... it is going to be THE set to own. :)

Pics, demos and maybe even a nice YouTube video to come!
I was concerned with interference with my MidiJet and G10, but Jonathon told me to be at least a foot from the transmitters. They work on the same principle, I think? Midi-jet is set by din switches channel 1-30. When I start up, first turn on the Midi Jet then the G10 which searches for an open channel.
Did you get the stereo adapter for the accordion?
I depend on wireless a lot in my performances. Although, the G10 plugs directly in the accordion Jack, no cables to worry about and the g10 plugs into base unit to recharge Only advantage as I can see.
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by JerryPH » Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:10 am

Keymn wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:25 am
I was concerned with interference with my MidiJet and G10, but Jonathon told me to be at least a foot from the transmitters. They work on the same principle, I think?
Yes, except the X-100's are much more basic. No way to set channels, they are what they are.
Keymn wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:25 am
Did you get the stereo adapter for the accordion?
I depend on wireless a lot in my performances. Although, the G10 plugs directly in the accordion Jack, no cables to worry about and the g10 plugs into base unit to recharge Only advantage as I can see.
They come with no cables other than the USB chargers. Jonathan was nice enough to include a wall charger block for dual USB connectors and a quality stereo to mono 1/4" plug for me with the kit.

I do however, own a cable that is stereo to dual mono, and that is perfect for the accordion. I will likely test that out over the next couple of days. It's 4:10am here and time to get to work. :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by torch » Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:20 pm

Jerry, thanks for the great initial report. It sounds pretty promising as I had expected. I can also see myself getting 2 units or so for various applications. I really like the fact that you can feed vocal and your accordion into the system.

Chris

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by JerryPH » Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:08 am

OK, the good and the not so good (which I think is me not the setup).

First... I love these things! :)

Jonathan stated 100 feet line of sight... I bet it is a little more, and and honestly, it is only ONE test but it was a bit of a toughie. Transmitter in my back pocket (which was NOT recommended) and the receiver in the basement on the floor under the mixer, so that no matter where I went, it had that electronics to pass through as some form of interference, I managed to not only play on the main floor, but also on the 2nd floor with 100% reliability for about 20 minutes. It was strange hearing yourself from so far away, and the delay of the sound was much more than 25ms, it was like a half second... lol This is obviously NOT because of the integrated latency of the units, but the distance that the sound needed to go (up the stairs, winding around the house and up several curves to get to my bedroom. The signal had to go a nice 40 feet in a straight line and pass through 2 floors and several walls, through my body and it was still working.

So, the not so good... can I hear the latency? Well, if I turn on the drums on the left hand and hit only the snare drum over and over, it is **maybe barely** discernible, and you have to be concentrating hard at it, and then... honest to gosh... I am sincerely not sure... maybe I'm hearing something or maybe not???

When playing... nope, impossible to hear any latency effects. By "hearing", in this test I also mean "feeling" as if feeling the difference between when your fingers hit and when your ears hear the sound.

What I also tested was being in the same room as the Bose speakers, turning on the accordion speakers and balancing the volume with the Bose speakers so that they are both about the same and turning my body several directions to see if I could hear something. Man, even with sharp percussion, I have to say this... if anyone can hear that darned latency, they have WAY better ears than me... which isn't saying all that much, but I was just not hearing it!

The not so good... what I am having trouble with is getting my super cheap lavalier to work with it. I can plug the receiver in to my camcorder, plug a dynamic mic (not a condenser mic) in to the setup and it works perfectly, but when I plug in the lavalier mic in... nothing, no sound. This may be due to some lack of signal strength from the lavalier, but this same lavalier with a different plug works awesome as the mic connected to my smartphone, but that doesn't prove anything.

I'm no electrical engineer, so I don't know. I'd love to get the lav to work with this setup. I might email Jonathan and ask what I am doing wrong, or if someone here knows, shout it out.

One thing I will say... at this level, it is important to use good cables (if possible balanced ones all around) and wiring to minimize interference and what not and the cable that I used to connect the receiver to the mixer was total rubbish and I did hear some minor hiss, again, I think that is me, not the X-100.

So that is my first official impression, and I am happy with them so far. :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am

JerryPH wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 9:10 am
Keymn wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:25 am
I was concerned with interference with my MidiJet and G10, but Jonathon told me to be at least a foot from the transmitters. They work on the same principle, I think?
Yes, except the X-100's are much more basic. No way to set channels, they are what they are.
Keymn wrote:
Mon Mar 26, 2018 2:25 am
Did you get the stereo adapter for the accordion?
I depend on wireless a lot in my performances. Although, the G10 plugs directly in the accordion Jack, no cables to worry about and the g10 plugs into base unit to recharge Only advantage as I can see.
They come with no cables other than the USB chargers. Jonathan was nice enough to include a wall charger block for dual USB connectors and a quality stereo to mono 1/4" plug for me with the kit.

I do however, own a cable that is stereo to dual mono, and that is perfect for the accordion. I will likely test that out over the next couple of days. It's 4:10am here and time to get to work. :)
Is the plug mono that goes into unit?
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:52 am

JerryPH wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:08 am
OK, the good and the not so good (which I think is me not the setup).

First... I love these things! :)

Jonathan stated 100 feet line of sight... I bet it is a little more, and and honestly, it is only ONE test but it was a bit of a toughie. Transmitter in my back pocket (which was NOT recommended) and the receiver in the basement on the floor under the mixer, so that no matter where I went, it had that electronics to pass through as some form of interference, I managed to not only play on the main floor, but also on the 2nd floor with 100% reliability for about 20 minutes. It was strange hearing yourself from so far away, and the delay of the sound was much more than 25ms, it was like a half second... lol This is obviously NOT because of the integrated latency of the units, but the distance that the sound needed to go (up the stairs, winding around the house and up several curves to get to my bedroom. The signal had to go a nice 40 feet in a straight line and pass through 2 floors and several walls, through my body and it was still working.

So, the not so good... can I hear the latency? Well, if I turn on the drums on the left hand and hit only the snare drum over and over, it is **maybe barely** discernible, and you have to be concentrating hard at it, and then... honest to gosh... I am sincerely not sure... maybe I'm hearing something or maybe not???

When playing... nope, impossible to hear any latency effects. By "hearing", in this test I also mean "feeling" as if feeling the difference between when your fingers hit and when your ears hear the sound.

What I also tested was being in the same room as the Bose speakers, turning on the accordion speakers and balancing the volume with the Bose speakers so that they are both about the same and turning my body several directions to see if I could hear something. Man, even with sharp percussion, I have to say this... if anyone can hear that darned latency, they have WAY better ears than me... which isn't saying all that much, but I was just not hearing it!

The not so good... what I am having trouble with is getting my super cheap lavalier to work with it. I can plug the receiver in to my camcorder, plug a dynamic mic (not a condenser mic) in to the setup and it works perfectly, but when I plug in the lavalier mic in... nothing, no sound. This may be due to some lack of signal strength from the lavalier, but this same lavalier with a different plug works awesome as the mic connected to my smartphone, but that doesn't prove anything.

I'm no electrical engineer, so I don't know. I'd love to get the lav to work with this setup. I might email Jonathan and ask what I am doing wrong, or if someone here knows, shout it out.

One thing I will say... at this level, it is important to use good cables (if possible balanced ones all around) and wiring to minimize interference and what not and the cable that I used to connect the receiver to the mixer was total rubbish and I did hear some minor hiss, again, I think that is me, not the X-100.

So that is my first official impression, and I am happy with them so far. :)
One thing I always do when going through loudspeakers is turn off the accordion speakers (Guitar and keytar players use wireless in large concert halls for years). This gives a impression of what the audience is hearing. I just did a gig with a drummer and guitarist. Played the bass guitar sound on the left hand and orchestra/accordion right hand sounds - with accordion speakers off. Sound carried well over the room, even when strolling out. Just used a small mixer and plugged in QSC12 speaker on the floor behind me.
Last Year I did many gigs with wireless and I was running all over the place, in restaurants, outside, large concert stages. Even the G10 goes farther then the specs. Latency, was not a concern. It won’t be until we use this unit in the field before you get accurate test results. May work well in studios. Keep up with the feedback!
FYI: I noticed Weird Al Yankovich is now using an fr4x. Strange, he is wired?
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by JerryPH » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:06 am

Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
Is the plug mono that goes into unit?
The sender/receivers are stereo of course, but he gave me a 1/4" stereo to mono adapter if I wanted to connect it to a mono sound source. It takes the mono channel and splits it to the left and right channels.
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
One thing I always do when going through loudspeakers is turn off the accordion speakers...
I can see the logic, it is better to hear what the people are, but I was testing to see if what came out of the speakers at the accordion differed from what came out of the Bose speakers
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
Last Year I did many gigs with wireless and I was running all over the place, in restaurants, outside, large concert stages. Even the G10 goes farther then the specs. Latency, was not a concern.
I am sure the latency is lower than the X-100's but I do not think the effect is severely negative.
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
It won’t be until we use this unit in the field before you get accurate test results. May work well in studios. Keep up with the feedback!
That may take a while, I am not an active player, but I may try it out a few times this coming summer outside, just for kicks.
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
FYI: I noticed Weird Al Yankovich is now using an fr4x. Strange, he is wired?
... it's because he is weird! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:43 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:06 am
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
Is the plug mono that goes into unit?
The sender/receivers are stereo of course, but he gave me a 1/4" stereo to mono adapter if I wanted to connect it to a mono sound source. It takes the mono channel and splits it to the left and right channels.
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
One thing I always do when going through loudspeakers is turn off the accordion speakers...
I can see the logic, it is better to hear what the people are, but I was testing to see if what came out of the speakers at the accordion differed from what came out of the Bose speakers
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
Last Year I did many gigs with wireless and I was running all over the place, in restaurants, outside, large concert stages. Even the G10 goes farther then the specs. Latency, was not a concern.
I am sure the latency is lower than the X-100's but I do not think the effect is severely negative.
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
It won’t be until we use this unit in the field before you get accurate test results. May work well in studios. Keep up with the feedback!
That may take a while, I am not an active player, but I may try it out a few times this coming summer outside, just for kicks.
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 2:23 am
FYI: I noticed Weird Al Yankovich is now using an fr4x. Strange, he is wired?
... it's because he is weird! :lol: :lol: :lol:
He may be weird, but sold out concerts, ticket are over $150 each, nose bleed section. And he sits down and plays the accordion singing pop parody’s with a quartet! Not a bad accordion player too! Always used the smaller fr series. 😂
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:55 pm

If you are strolling out and here latency, chances are you main speakers are not loud enough or speaker dispersion angle of speakers are too wide. Not always the wireless system is to blame first. Me too, not an engineer in this...I am not sure if those Bose systems can fill a long room of 300-500 people? Those owners have to tell me if it is just as effective as standard loudspeakers like QSC12 in that environment.
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by JerryPH » Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:33 pm

Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:55 pm
...I am not sure if those Bose systems can fill a long room of 300-500 people? Those owners have to tell me if it is just as effective as standard loudspeakers like QSC12 in that environment.
A lot depends on the model. I have done 500+ people in a covered ice rink environment with just 2 Bose 802-E speakers and 500 watts per channel... but I was not the only one with amplification, there were 4 singers/instruments with me at the time and they also had a pair of 802's as well. I'd expect a pair of Bose F1 812's with subs could do it quite easily with volume to spare and the Bose L1 Model II's could handle it pretty well too, albeit with less bass presence than the F1's.
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:30 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 10:33 pm
Keymn wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 3:55 pm
...I am not sure if those Bose systems can fill a long room of 300-500 people? Those owners have to tell me if it is just as effective as standard loudspeakers like QSC12 in that environment.
A lot depends on the model. I have done 500+ people in a covered ice rink environment with just 2 Bose 802-E speakers and 500 watts per channel... but I was not the only one with amplification, there were 4 singers/instruments with me at the time and they also had a pair of 802's as well. I'd expect a pair of Bose F1 812's with subs could do it quite easily with volume to spare and the Bose L1 Model II's could handle it pretty well too, albeit with less bass presence than the F1's.
I am going to try those Bose one day. I heard good things about them. Now that you guys used these for accordion purposes is more convincing.
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by torch » Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:48 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:08 am
First... I love these things! :)

The not so good... what I am having trouble with is getting my super cheap lavalier to work with it. I can plug the receiver in to my camcorder, plug a dynamic mic (not a condenser mic) in to the setup and it works perfectly, but when I plug in the lavalier mic in... nothing, no sound. This may be due to some lack of signal strength from the lavalier, but this same lavalier with a different plug works awesome as the mic connected to my smartphone, but that doesn't prove anything.
Some of those lavalier or headworn mics do need phantom power. I have a couple of them with different connectors and I was wonder how they would be connected. I think I found part of the answer I was looking for on the company website. "Can I send two seperate audio signals using left and right?
Without problems! The left and right channels are completly independent and don't forget that left channel also has the pre-amp."

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Wed Mar 28, 2018 2:30 am

torch wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 11:48 pm
JerryPH wrote:
Tue Mar 27, 2018 1:08 am
First... I love these things! :)

The not so good... what I am having trouble with is getting my super cheap lavalier to work with it. I can plug the receiver in to my camcorder, plug a dynamic mic (not a condenser mic) in to the setup and it works perfectly, but when I plug in the lavalier mic in... nothing, no sound. This may be due to some lack of signal strength from the lavalier, but this same lavalier with a different plug works awesome as the mic connected to my smartphone, but that doesn't prove anything.
Some of those lavalier or headworn mics do need phantom power. I have a couple of them with different connectors and I was wonder how they would be connected. I think I found part of the answer I was looking for on the company website. "Can I send two seperate audio signals using left and right?
Without problems! The left and right channels are completly independent and don't forget that left channel also has the pre-amp."
It is too bad the Roland accordion did not use that MP3 input as a mic input like many arrangers. Probably asking too much? There is lots of gadgets out there for your application. I worked with Sweetwater Music when I asked for help on an application. Sometimes good advice...
I found this, but think buying a separate wireless mic set may be more cost effective. https://www.akg.com/Microphones/Microph ... B48_L.html
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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by JerryPH » Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:12 am

I tried the preamp and got a lot of noise, possibly because I had the stereo to mono adapter in there. Likely what I want is a stereo adapter that has a blank right channel and only the left channel holding the lav mic and activating the preamp.... a small project for one day and it would be the perfect solution for me.

Saramonic makes a few different adapters that work off of a 9 volt battery and are both a pre-amp and 48v power source and adjustable for like $25US but that's not what I am looking for... Larry, you just maybe helped me think my way through this one with the preamp and left channel idea! :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Wireless Stereo

Post by Keymn » Wed Mar 28, 2018 10:07 am

JerryPH wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 9:12 am
I tried the preamp and got a lot of noise, possibly because I had the stereo to mono adapter in there. Likely what I want is a stereo adapter that has a blank right channel and only the left channel holding the lav mic and activating the preamp.... a small project for one day and it would be the perfect solution for me.

Saramonic makes a few different adapters that work off of a 9 volt battery and are both a pre-amp and 48v power source and adjustable for like $25US but that's not what I am looking for... Larry, you just maybe helped me think my way through this one with the preamp and left channel idea! :)
The system is as good as the least quality hardware. Mic of good quality is suggested, but most have XLR.
Like this one: https://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail ... microphone
I thought the point of these units was to transmit the accordion in stereo? But a good idea and I believe you may accomplish something.
Although, when I connected my G10, seemed so clean to just plug it in the accordion, no cables or fastening to body. And G10, not much more $! Both seem to work on same concept.
Larry Roberts Entertainment
http://www.larryrobertsent.com

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