FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

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Accordionmuffin
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FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Accordionmuffin » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:14 pm

Hi! I cannot find Grand Piano sound for FR-8x. Anyone know how to get it into my FR-8x?

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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Glenn » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:58 am

Orchestra tone #03 is called “classic piano”. Is this “grand piano” enough?
1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA

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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Thomas N » Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:01 am

I find all piano sounds on the FR-8X to be terrible.

I found all piano sounds on my Petosa Millennium to be horrible as well. I've also found that even when using a sound module with very high quality piano samples they sound terrible on the accordion.

I guess I really just despise the sound of a piano coming from an accordion! As a pianist as well as an accordionist I prefer to keep the two separate. Completely separate.
Current Accordions:

2003 Excelsior 960 Custom Magnante 5/5 - Hand Made Reeds
Excelsior 930 Van Damme Jazz Accordion - Hand Made Reeds
Roland FR-8X Digital Accordion - No Reeds

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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Keymn » Mon Sep 24, 2018 5:37 am

Thomas N wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:01 am
I find all piano sounds on the FR-8X to be terrible.

I found all piano sounds on my Petosa Millennium to be horrible as well. I've also found that even when using a sound module with very high quality piano samples they sound terrible on the accordion.

I guess I really just despise the sound of a piano coming from an accordion! As a pianist as well as an accordionist I prefer to keep the two separate. Completely separate.
I agree. Piano not my favorite too. I tried to make adjustments, touch, release, etc. in the parameters. Tried the Roland GoKeys which is a starter keyboard at $300, surpasses the accordion piano sounds . But the keys are almost full size piano action! Something I could play in a live situation. Piano players like sustain pedals which I have no knowledge how to use.
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by debra » Mon Sep 24, 2018 4:31 pm

Thomas N wrote:
Mon Sep 24, 2018 1:01 am
I find all piano sounds on the FR-8X to be terrible.
...
It is odd because Roland does make digital pianos that have a decent piano sound. (Not great like Yamaha but "decent".)
Maybe they are trying to protect that market...
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Thomas N » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:34 am

I completely agree with you! I had a Roland Fantom X years ago and I absolutely loved the piano sample from that synthesizer. And that was a decade ago.
Current Accordions:

2003 Excelsior 960 Custom Magnante 5/5 - Hand Made Reeds
Excelsior 930 Van Damme Jazz Accordion - Hand Made Reeds
Roland FR-8X Digital Accordion - No Reeds

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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Keymn » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:15 am

Even those Casio Privia pianos sound decent.
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by JerryPH » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:31 am

From the factory and without any expansions, the 8X has like 20 piano related sounds:

Piano
0001 NaturalPiano Keyboard
0002 SuperiorPian Keyboard
0003 ClassicPiano Keyboard
0004 UprightPiano Keyboard
0005 Rock Piano Keyboard
0006 RD Piano Keyboard
0007 Brite Piano Keyboard
0008 European Pf Keyboard
0009 Mild Piano Keyboard
0010 Piano+String Bellows+ Keyboard
0011 Piano+Choir Bellows+ Keyboard
0012 Honky Tonk Bellows+ Keyboard
0013 MonoAcPiano Keyboard
0014 Ac Piano Keyboard
0015 Oct.Piano Keyboard

Electric Piano
0016 Wurly Keyboard
0017 El.Piano Keyboard
0018 EP Heaven Bellows+ Keyboard
0019 Phase Clav Keyboard
0020 Harpsy w Keyboard

Of the first 15, #1 and #2 come closest to a grand piano feel. Of course everyone has their own idea of what it should sound like, some like and some don't. I am not a big piano sound user, but will mix it with another sound or 2 at times.
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Keymn » Tue Sep 25, 2018 4:57 pm

I think this post appears to be others seeking advice on how to create a great piano sound. I know you have to go into the parameters of a certain piano sound. There is several settings that will enhance the sound. Touch, release, etc. Has anybody done this? I have and it does improve the sound. I will have no problem sharing my setting. Maybe send a screen shot in the near future?
I too never use piano on my sets.
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by DonN5LZ » Tue Sep 25, 2018 5:44 pm

I think you need good sustain control to obtain a realistic piano sound, and V accordions just do not have that capability. Weighted keys are also important (at least from my point of view as a long time piano player). Weighted keyboard keys simulate the real thing, and make the touch and velocity variables work the way they should. Accordion keys are more like on/off switches when you compare them to a quality weighted keyboard.

Thus far I have not found what I would consider to be a realistic piano sound on this new FR4X of mine …. But I didn’t buy it for its piano sounds, and really don’t plan to use them. As Jerry mentioned, I suspect that piano is probably best suited for layering on V accordions…. Probably best when combined with strings, or possibly for chords on the bass side if you can get the sustain setting right.

As far as great piano sounds are concerned, Kurzweil gets my vote. They’ve been doing it a long long time and have too many to count, and most are very very nice when they’re played on a weighted keyboard. Another point … I firmly believe that the sound system is also a critical part of the mix. There’s a lot of subjectivity here, but I have a pair of very nice Yamaha monitors in my home studio that I use with one of my Kurzweil keyboards … and the sound is very impressive … I can close my eyes while playing that setup …. Kurzweil’s weighted keys and great piano sound through those good monitors …. And I feel like I’m playing a Yamaha or Kawai grand. But when I connect the same keyboard to any of my Roland keyboard amplifiers (I have four of them), or to other sound systems at gigs, the piano sounds never seem to come out right .. I can’t describe what I hear but there always seems to be a wavy chunky thing about it. I don’t think the audience cares … but it always bothers me.

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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Keymn » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:39 pm

It is strange(maybe just me), but when using the accordion as a controller for bk-7m piano sound, it is quite an improvement?
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by JerryPH » Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:08 am

Keymn wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:39 pm
It is strange(maybe just me), but when using the accordion as a controller for bk-7m piano sound, it is quite an improvement?
Yes and no. In most ways the sounds are very close if not identical because the 8X came out after the BK-7m and uses many of the same patches. Now there are a few that are different/better/worse, and of course it offers the advantage of a rhythm/backing section that I really like. That, this is what made me interested in it, and I was just sheer dumb luck when I found a near new unit in a pawn shop for a ridiculously good price within a week of me getting my 8X.

Now if you want the top of the line sounds, the most advanced on the market today, the Roland Integra 7 is the best that Roland offers now. With over a 6,000 sounds, it has ALL the old sounds and a ton of new sounds and new technology. Stupid expensive, of course, but that is what you pay for the best that Roland offers. :)

https://www.roland.com/us/products/integra-7/

I bet it has an awesome Grand Piano in there somewhere... lol
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Keymn » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:38 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 11:08 am
Keymn wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:39 pm
It is strange(maybe just me), but when using the accordion as a controller for bk-7m piano sound, it is quite an improvement?
Yes and no. In most ways the sounds are very close if not identical because the 8X came out after the BK-7m and uses many of the same patches. Now there are a few that are different/better/worse, and of course it offers the advantage of a rhythm/backing section that I really like. That, this is what made me interested in it, and I was just sheer dumb luck when I found a near new unit in a pawn shop for a ridiculously good price within a week of me getting my 8X.

Now if you want the top of the line sounds, the most advanced on the market today, the Roland Integra 7 is the best that Roland offers now. With over a 6,000 sounds, it has ALL the old sounds and a ton of new sounds and new technology. Stupid expensive, of course, but that is what you pay for the best that Roland offers. :)

https://www.roland.com/us/products/integra-7/

I bet it has an awesome Grand Piano in there somewhere... lol
Check out Nord. See What they do to the key hammer action.
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/products/nord-piano-4

What I see on the accordion parameters is attack, decay, release, Tva/tvf envelope. These are set at zero, factory setting for some reason? I set the attack in the minus direction. Then add a little decay/release. Maybe we need to experiment and somebody might share a good setting? I may in the future play ballad standards with this piano sound. But when it comes to hammering out a Jerry Lee Lewis Whole lotta Shakin’, It is time to switch to a real piano with hammer action!
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Accordionmuffin » Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:31 pm

Original poster here!

Love that i got a good discussiong going on here :tup:. I want to add that i have a sustain pedal FC-300 with my FR-8x. I have tried adjusting attack and release. Im happy with the piano sounds when playing, for example, rock'n'roll piano where the touch is 'quick'. Actually, I can recall that once after a gig in a local bar, a professional pianist came to say me that my accordion has better piano sounds than her digital piano. Huge compliment. However, I'm not satisfied with the piano sounds when playing ballads. I Agree that #1-#3 are the best for the job but not enough. They should be more powerful and wider. I understand that the lack of hammered keys affects the sound critically but acquiring a separate keyboard is not option for me since I have played button accordion over 15 years. I just cant chew the fact that FR8x has price tag of 5000€ and theres no Grand Piano sound... :hb

Integra sounded interesting. However, i dont know if it understands bellows if I used it other than piano sounds.

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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by JerryPH » Thu Sep 27, 2018 9:16 am

Just like a real piano, it will likely use the touch sensitivity of the accordion for volume control while playing. It might be possible to set it to recognize bellows control by changing MIDI functionality, but other than seeing it on the net and hearing its sounds on YouTube, that's all I know about the Integra 7. But get ready for the price, it is up there.
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Re: FR-8x sound Grand Piano Sound

Post by Keymn » Thu Sep 27, 2018 3:40 pm

Accordionmuffin wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 10:31 pm
Original poster here!

Love that i got a good discussiong going on here :tup:. I want to add that i have a sustain pedal FC-300 with my FR-8x. I have tried adjusting attack and release. Im happy with the piano sounds when playing, for example, rock'n'roll piano where the touch is 'quick'. Actually, I can recall that once after a gig in a local bar, a professional pianist came to say me that my accordion has better piano sounds than her digital piano. Huge compliment. However, I'm not satisfied with the piano sounds when playing ballads. I Agree that #1-#3 are the best for the job but not enough. They should be more powerful and wider. I understand that the lack of hammered keys affects the sound critically but acquiring a separate keyboard is not option for me since I have played button accordion over 15 years. I just cant chew the fact that FR8x has price tag of 5000€ and theres no Grand Piano sound... :hb

Integra sounded interesting. However, i dont know if it understands bellows if I used it other than piano sounds.
Seems Roland Zeroed out many parameter settings at factory. Frustrates many that do not realize this. Sometimes a little adjustments makes a difference. Not sure why Roland did this? I own a Korg arranger and they have attack, release, etc. already setup on piano and other sounds. Even they have various EQ settings for you to try that are factory.
Before investing in hardware synths, I would try many available softsynths. Something to experiment with and cost minimal. As far as I am concerned, the VAccordion sounds good enough on it’s own. I am getting old and tired of all this new technology hardware. Time to hookup with iPad or PC to experience the available apps. A hobby for me. Call it music therapy. That is why I invested in the Roland GO Keys. Something to jam with and to experience the built in Bluetooth world.
Larry Roberts Entertainment
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