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Annoying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

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JerryPH
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Annoying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by JerryPH » Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:25 am

... I have the answer!

Well, I did not originally come up with this answer, that honor goes to Jim D. (no surprise there... lol). I was playing with the FR-8X at full volume using the deep orchestral bass and if I pushed or pulled really hard, I could get the accordion to demonstrate a wierd bass vibration. Some reading in the Yahoo FR-8X forum pointed the issue to lose screws in the bass side.

Taking the lead set by Jim, I followed his guide and even made a couple of improvements. The result is that my V-Accordion now sounds as good at maximum volume settings as it does at all other volume levels.

If you have one and it needs this modification, it is not hard, takes perhaps an hour of your time, some gaskets, a touch of silicone and some blue Loctite and a modicum of care and DIY abilities. I'd rate the difficulty of this project a 2 out of 10. :)

Here is how I did it, pics and all: Accordion Memories - Bass Vibration Fix
Last edited by JerryPH on Sun Jun 18, 2017 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Glenn
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Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by Glenn » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:37 am

Thanks for the detailed description. I dont have the problem (yet). As the accordion ages though I'm sure it'll rear it's ugly head so your post will be a good source of courage to open it.
1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA

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Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by JIM D. » Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:44 pm

This problem of bass vibration only appeared on early models of the FR-8x. After finding an in house fix and notifying Roland of the solution, all models after 2015 appeared with the problem solved.
And just as a note, I've been toying with the new 4x. I plan to spend some serious time with it this coming week and will submit my complete comments on the Forum. In my short time with the new 4x (PA model) I've found some great positive's - for one is that the keyboard is awesome in it's speed and touch. This can be credited to the firm Fatar ---
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatar" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ---
-- http://www.fatar.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; --
who now makes the "V" accordion line.
the new screen is also much more user friendly as compared to the 3x.
The only negative I've found so far (my personal opinion) is just like the 3x, the new 4x has no palm (wrist) shift. The only other negative (and for dealers only) is that the 4x will have the same price tag as the 3x.
A negative for dealers that have 3x's still on the shelf, but a positive for a buyer wishing a (new old stock) 3x, as many dealer's are offering a free BK-7 with the purchase of a leftover 3x :tup:
Owner & Operator "THE FISARMONICA SHOP" Chicopee, MA (USA)

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Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by JerryPH » Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:14 pm

JIM D. wrote:This problem of bass vibration only appeared on early models of the FR-8x. After finding an in house fix and notifying Roland of the solution, all models after 2015 appeared with the problem solved.
I guess mine slipped through. It has a build date of February 2016.
JIM D. wrote:In my short time with the new 4x (PA model) I've found some great positive's - for one is that the keyboard is awesome in it's speed and touch. This can be credited to the firm Fatar...
They say that the keyboard is just like the 8X. If that is so, this might be a huge improvement over the 3X, but it still is a pretty poor keyboard compared to something like the one on my Morino VI N. I find it deep as heck, slow and very challenging to get fast runs out of. I can literally play hard passages double the speed on the Hohner than when on the Roland. I guess this is an edge that has to go to the Bugari Evo, though I have never yet tried one.
JIM D. wrote:The only other negative (and for dealers only) is that the 4x will have the same price tag as the 3x. A negative for dealers that have 3x's still on the shelf, but a positive for a buyer wishing a (new old stock) 3x, as many dealer's are offering a free BK-7 with the purchase of a leftover 3x :tup:
Wow, that's huge! A new BK retails for around $999.00 and that's a substantial discount for a $4300 instrument... and I see people already discounting them quite heavily for something just newly released (http://www.theaccordionshop.co.uk/accor ... accordion/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;)! But a 3X with a free BK... wow, I am sure that is very attractive to people that were on the fence about getting one!
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by JIM D. » Mon Jan 16, 2017 9:39 pm

The 4x keyboard is now a Fatar design and the 8x still is a Roland design. Ya just got to try one !!
The piano & string effects are equal to the modern pro-keyboards on the market today. As for your make date - your box might have been sitting on the shelf (Italy) and tagged when it was exported. You see 8x models were made by Roland of Italy for a period of time before Roland made the decision to terminate all the Roland (Italian made) products to somewhere else on the globe. They did however decide to leave their production "V" accordions to the Italian firm of Fatar (a brilliant move) and all concerns with "V" accordion models were quickly addressed. The Bass vibration issues on new 8x's have been corrected on new 8x's and the older 8x's (if you care can be corrected by your local dealer) or you can ship to Roland for a solution. Your DIY fix on your 8x is far and above the necessary fix.
Another note, - I will post my impressions on the new 4x shortly when I have some time to spare :roll: but I must say without trying it, my first impression,was that it looked like an 8x that someone polished it with "Preparation H" and it shrunk :lol:
Owner & Operator "THE FISARMONICA SHOP" Chicopee, MA (USA)

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Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by JerryPH » Mon Jan 16, 2017 10:16 pm

JIM D. wrote:The 4x keyboard is now a Fatar design and the 8x still is a Roland design. Ya just got to try one !!
I'm sure that one day I will, however, right now I don't think it appeals to me as much as an 8x. I love the full size, I definitely want a palm master switch and I am thankfully in good enough physical condition where size makes no differences for me. I don't want to lose any features that I have now, so going to a 4X for me is too big of a step down. One day, who knows. :)
JIM D. wrote:The Bass vibration issues on new 8x's have been corrected on new 8x's and the older 8x's (if you care can be corrected by your local dealer) or you can ship to Roland for a solution. Your DIY fix on your 8x is far and above the necessary fix.
But if it works, and addresses the issue, and I lose use of the accordion for a mere 60 minutes, it's well worth it. ;)
JIM D. wrote:Another note, - I will post my impressions on the new 4x shortly when I have some time to spare :roll: but I must say without trying it, my first impression,was that it looked like an 8x that someone polished it with "Preparation H" and it shrunk :lol:
Either start a new thread or post here, I definitely won't mind hearing about the 4X. Anything that does good for the accordion now a days is a good thing and the 4X is making some positive ripples in the pond all around the world!! :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by Thomas N » Mon Jan 16, 2017 11:13 pm

Thanks to you both for all of this really good information. I don't have the bass problem with my FR-8X (2015 model) and I use a string bass at near full volume often.

I don't find the keyboard deep or difficult at all. I played synthesizers for years and always loved the synth-action keybed which is what the FR-8X seems most similar to me. In fact, I find fast treble runs to be much easier on the FR-8X than on my acoustic Excelsior 960 customized with the very fast-action low-travel Magnante keyboard.

Jim really makes me want to try out the FR-4X keyboard now, though!
Current Accordions:

2003 Excelsior 960 Custom Magnante 5/5 - Hand Made Reeds
Excelsior 930 Van Damme Jazz Accordion - Hand Made Reeds
Roland FR-8X Digital Accordion - No Reeds

Keymn

Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by Keymn » Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:40 pm

On my 4x, I rarely have the main volume over 1/2. Orchestra bass Left hand - medium fixed, accordion left hand - Med fixed and bellows. I am surprised hearing that the 8x has more power and some using full volume? Do we need to drive these more for a typical strolling gig or small show?

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Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by JerryPH » Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:44 am

Keymn wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:40 pm
On my 4x, I rarely have the main volume over 1/2. Orchestra bass Left hand - medium fixed, accordion left hand - Med fixed and bellows. I am surprised hearing that the 8x has more power and some using full volume? Do we need to drive these more for a typical strolling gig or small show?
I like mine at 3/4 to full volume even during normal use, it just gives me more dynamic range, not that one plays at full volume all the time.

I am spoiled with the Morino because it is a very loud instrument of itself, so my ears are kind of used to having that volume available.

As for volume needed when strolling, a lot depends on where. If you are in a group of 75 people who are there to listen to you, even 3/4 volume is adequate, but if you are in a bit of a rowdy beer hall with lots of noise, laughing and talking, even full volume is not quite enough. I love the idea of wireless stereo audo and MIDI and am currently researching this for me next purchase. :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

Keymn

Re: Annpying bass vibration with your V-accordion?

Post by Keymn » Sun Jun 18, 2017 8:11 am

JerryPH wrote:
Fri Jun 16, 2017 10:44 am
Keymn wrote:
Wed Jun 14, 2017 6:40 pm
On my 4x, I rarely have the main volume over 1/2. Orchestra bass Left hand - medium fixed, accordion left hand - Med fixed and bellows. I am surprised hearing that the 8x has more power and some using full volume? Do we need to drive these more for a typical strolling gig or small show?
I like mine at 3/4 to full volume even during normal use, it just gives me more dynamic range, not that one plays at full volume all the time.

I am spoiled with the Morino because it is a very loud instrument of itself, so my ears are kind of used to having that volume available.

As for volume needed when strolling, a lot depends on where. If you are in a group of 75 people who are there to listen to you, even 3/4 volume is adequate, but if you are in a bit of a rowdy beer hall with lots of noise, laughing and talking, even full volume is not quite enough. I love the idea of wireless stereo audo and MIDI and am currently researching this for me next purchase. :)
Yes you are correct, this weekend I had a noisy room, had to crank up almost full volume. As far as what I have for wireless audio is mono, not stereo. Do not know of any wireless stereo except, I did buy this from China....which was inexpensive (you get what you pay for). It did not work, kept cutting out. Although it is pictured hooked to a VAccordion.
http://www.accordions-asia.com/wireless ... ceiver.php

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