Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

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xocd
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Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by xocd » Fri Apr 07, 2017 2:10 pm

I am about to commit accordioncide and throw the F3xb out of the
window. The thing just does not sound like an accordion. I have tried
playing it via an external amp and through headphones and it still
does not work for me.

As a last resort, I would like to try using it as a midi controller.
So, I am looking for a good sampled accordion. A likely candidate is
the "Vintage Accordion" from Psound by Paolo Principi. There is a
demo in youtube by Uwe Steiger (it starts weird but gets better):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jrcVka09VE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Does anybody have experience with this sample set? Or, can you
recommend a realistic sounding alternative?

Thanks!
xocd
Somerville, MA

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Glenn
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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by Glenn » Fri Apr 07, 2017 6:59 pm

I don't fancy your chances of making a 3rd party sample sound better in a performance environment. Not much help for answering your question but just an observation.


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1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA

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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by JIM D. » Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:45 pm

I'm really not sure of your intention of "dumping your 3x" but I must assure you that your box has internal TWEAK"S that can be found in your manual that will enable you to tune it to your "Cup Of Tea".
Many "V" accordion owners get frustrated with programming their "V" accordion model.
You're very fortunate to have a flash drive device on your 3x that when inserted will enable you play the sounds you desire and also enable you to download them into your box.

Now we are very fortunate to have here a Forum member -

memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=651" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And if you PM or Email Rich he will gladly, and most likely impress you with help with your needs

As of now I have been owning, performing, repairing and making aftermarket supplies for all the "V" accordion models for 15+ years now and have really no time to create these unique styles for sale as I'm much to busy with repairs at this point.

But I must tell you that Rich as well might be called a (Top Surgeon) when it comes to "V" accordion programming.

Give him a shout with your wishes.


http://www.noelaccordion.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

And tell him "Jim Sent Ya" :tup:
Owner & Operator "THE FISARMONICA SHOP" Chicopee, MA (USA)

xocd
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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by xocd » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:32 am

Glenn wrote:I don't fancy your chances of making a 3rd party sample sound better in a performance environment. Not much help for answering your question but just an observation.
Glenn,

Luckily for all concerned I only play in the quiet of my music room. I am looking for a sound that I can enjoy and I do not mind the gear complications (card-carrying geek).

I have a digital keyboard (Kawai MP8) that has a great action and a sound I dislike. I was lucky to find PianoTeq (link below), a physically modeled piano which, if not a real piano, is a good facsimile. The keyboard feeds MIDI to my laptop, etc. My hope is to find something similar for the virtual accordion.

https://www.pianoteq.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Thanks,
xocd
Somerville, MA

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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by xocd » Sat Apr 08, 2017 12:37 am

JIM D. wrote:I'm really not sure of your intention of "dumping your 3x" but I must assure you that your box has internal TWEAK"S that can be found in your manual that will enable you to tune it to your "Cup Of Tea".
Many "V" accordion owners get frustrated with programming their "V" accordion model.
You're very fortunate to have a flash drive device on your 3x that when inserted will enable you play the sounds you desire and also enable you to download them into your box.
Jim,

I will certainly try your recommendation. Though I am puzzled that if the FR3x can produce a better, more realistic, accordion sound Roland did not place it front and center as one of its defaults.

Thanks,
xocd
Somerville, MA

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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by Glenn » Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:03 am

The big difference I see is that a piano is played using keys whilst an accordion is played using bellows. By the way, Roland V accordions are not sample players but use physical modelling. I also agree with Jim that Roland have provided great base material upon which guys like Richard Noel have added sparkle. I don't have a 3x but I assume some basic sound qualities will be in common with my 8x and in my case I mostly use settings I've created myself.


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1) Ballone Burini 46C (4+5) cassotto (LMMH) 3/3 PA; 2) Accordiola Piano V (5+5) cassotto (LMMMH) 3/3 PA;
3) Roland FR8X; 4) Hohner Vox 4k (LMMH) 3/3 CBA

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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by Alan Sharkis » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:21 pm

I think the whole concept of what user manuals ought to be has been lost on the software industry, the pro audio industry, and, by extension, the digital music industry.

There was a time when a company that wanted to write a manual would ask a technical writer who had no knowledge of the product to spend time with the product and write a manual from a user's point of view. This became a very costly process and delayed the release of the product, so the concept was, sadly, abandoned. I recall writing "How-To" articles back in the Atari 8-bit days for my user groups, and now I wonder how I had the time to do it.

Today's manuals are written by people with an intimate knowledge of the product, which often means that they assume that the reader of such a technical manual has some of that knowledge and can follow their logic. To complicate things even more, many of those people lack the skills to convey their knowledge to newcomers in writing. An additional complication arises when the manual must be translated into several languages.

Many of us who are hobbyists must recreate that "from scratch," highly experimental process on our own, or look to professionals who've already done it. Those professionals, in turn, are few and far between. How many of them have the time away from their own performing, practice, families, etc., to create such tutorials for themselves, and of those, how many are willing to share their knowledge? I imagine that if I were a working musician, I'd resent it if somebody answered my question with, "Read the manual," especially if that manual was badly organized from my point of view, even if it made perfect sense to the author.

I don't own a Roland, but my accordion teacher owns two, and he regularly goes back to his dealer to learn how to program and tweak them. The dealer will do that only for his customers, but at least he's sharing and that should be recognized. People who share their knowledge of the programming and tweaking process via Youtube deserve even more credit.

I'm off my soapbox now ...

Alan

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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by JerryPH » Sun Apr 09, 2017 1:47 pm

Alan Sharkis wrote:Many of us who are hobbyists must recreate that "from scratch," highly experimental process on our own, or look to professionals who've already done it. Those professionals, in turn, are few and far between. How many of them have the time away from their own performing, practice, families, etc., to create such tutorials for themselves, and of those, how many are willing to share their knowledge?
As a hobbyist, I'm willing to learn and share that knowledge... and on top of that, do it for free. I did something quite similar with the most technical and advanced photography triggers on the market. Over the course of a year and a half, I made 5 videos that went from mild to wild and they are even now the most comprehensive instructional videos on the maret for this product (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_ ... ld+to+wild" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;).

This year, I am going to start a very similar "Mild to Wild" series of videos but for the Roland FR-8x PA. No one is paying me, no one is sponsoring me, I do it only because I like to learn and teach and I love to share. The first one is going to start to go in to production within the following 30 days. Just this week, I was finally able to made changes to my work. The first result of that is the Adieu,Adieu video that I made last weekend. I now have a schedule that will permit me to spend a few hours per weekend making these videos and playing the accordion a bit more. The goal is to start something methodical from very easy/obvious and move in to the more advanced functions, including how to program your own special sounds, create sets and much more.
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by debra » Mon Apr 10, 2017 3:58 pm

Glenn wrote:The big difference I see is that a piano is played using keys whilst an accordion is played using bellows. By the way, Roland V accordions are not sample players but use physical modelling. I also agree with Jim that Roland have provided great base material upon which guys like Richard Noel have added sparkle. I don't have a 3x but I assume some basic sound qualities will be in common with my 8x and in my case I mostly use settings I've created myself.
It may just be a matter of time...
Roland started with modeled sound generation on their digital pianos and some other brands did too.
Today all digital pianos I know of use sampled sound (including Roland, already for many years).

There may come a time when they start realizing that sampled accordion sounds beat the physical modelling...
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl

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Re: Accordioncide or looking for a sampled accordion

Post by Howie » Mon Apr 10, 2017 10:31 pm

debra wrote: Roland started with modeled sound generation on their digital pianos and some other brands did too.
Today all digital pianos I know of use sampled sound (including Roland, already for many years).

There may come a time when they start realizing that sampled accordion sounds beat the physical modelling...
Actually, most current high end Roland digital pianos use their "SuperNatural" modelling. It is pretty good these days, although a lot of people still prefer samples. A general listener can't tell the difference, but piano wonks can.
The advantage of modelling on Pianos is that you can get practically unlimited polyphony, but that's not likely to be a consideration for accordion.
I wouldn't be surprised if Roland put more effort into the modelling of Piano sounds than accordion, given market sizes.
Until I started browsing this site I had no idea such a thing as digital accordions existed.

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