Agnes Waltz

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BobM
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Agnes Waltz

Post by BobM » Sun May 19, 2013 12:11 am

I’d like to second The Agnes Waltz as a TOTM at some point. There’s some links to the .pdf on another post and a Jimmy S recording on YouTube.
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Matt Butcher
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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by Matt Butcher » Sun May 19, 2013 12:22 am

Lovely tune.

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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by Glenn » Sun May 19, 2013 7:54 am

I'll subscribe to that.
I think I knew Agnes when she lived by the A13 near Romford.
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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by BobM » Sun May 19, 2013 10:45 am

I’ve been listening to a few JS recordings, and I notice that in spite of the many comments on the “old” forum that there’s no place in Trad music (of the British Isles) for Dom and Dim chords, his Parlophone recordings are awash with them.

The recording of the Agnes Waltz contains I notice, SHOCK HORROR, Diminished chords a 7b5 and more Dom 7 chords than you can shake a stick at.

I blame that George Martin.. :shock:
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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by BobM » Sun May 19, 2013 10:48 am

Glenn wrote:I'll subscribe to that.
I think I knew Agnes when she lived by the A13 near Romford.
Yes, she lived next to the Pub across the road from the post office.
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Matt Butcher
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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by Matt Butcher » Sun May 19, 2013 10:52 am

Yes the Scottish music that I know is full of dominant 7th chords to the extent that I can't imagine how it would sound without them. I'm not very good at spotting diminished chords. The other thing you get is key changes within a tune or medley, how outrageous is that?

Still laughing about George Martin, thanks for that!

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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by BobM » Sun May 19, 2013 11:53 am

Matt Butcher wrote: Still laughing about George Martin, thanks for that!
Not quite sure what you mean.

But he did produce most of the Parlophone output including JS. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Martin#Parlophone" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; "Selected discography (as producer)".
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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by Matt Butcher » Sun May 19, 2013 2:24 pm

Sorry, looks like a misunderstanding. I did know George Martin produced the recordings at Parlophone, but I thought you were making a joke about the Beatles, you know some people say George Martin got the Beatles into more sophisticated harmonies etc., for better or worse, I thought you were referring to that and I was imagining the consequences. Anyway hopefully no harm done.

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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by BobM » Sun May 19, 2013 3:23 pm

Matt Butcher wrote: Anyway hopefully no harm done.
Of course, no harm done. :) I meant that it’s unlikely for him to allow anything “toxic” through, he was a fine musician in his own right, and there would have been a musical associate on hand to straighten things out on the day.

The C# Dims are on bars 25/26 (not including the lead-in note), and a nice juicy A7b5 is to be found on bar 14 of the second section. A Eb in the melody and the bass of an A7 chord = A7b5.

If you want to know how to finger this let me know, its going to need a 4:3 I think.

BobM.
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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by george garside » Mon May 20, 2013 11:23 am

a couple of probably irellevent points on the agnes waltz!

It was first recorded by its composer William Hannah in 1920 so the original manuscript would definitely not have had any 7th or diminished chords. I am not sure of the box he used for that recording but at the very most it would have had 24 12x2 bass i.e. bass and major chord. Probably less as I think the 12x2 came out a bit later than 1920.

So the version posted on here has had the chords arranged somewhere, sometime by some other bugger! That does not mean that it is incorrect nor does it mean that it is correct!

I havn't heard Hannahs original 1920 recording so the tune may be exactly the same or it may not as one of the persons mentioned above may have rearranged odd bits here and there!


And that is the fascination of traditional/folk music.( and hopefully of 'tune of the month) There is the choice of learning to play it as per the quoted version complete with dim & 7ths or to change some or indeed all of the bass. Same goes for the treble - feel free to alter a note here or there , to shove in some right hand chords as well as or instead of bass etc etc etc.

Folk music is not about precisely replicating what somebody else has written down ( but of course it is absolutely fine to do that) it is also about putting you own stamp on a tune whilst retaining the identity and recognisability of the original . Which is of course why many traad tunes passed down generations by ear have many different versions - and that's what its all about

george
Last edited by george garside on Mon May 20, 2013 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Agnes Waltz

Post by Anyanka » Mon May 20, 2013 12:47 pm

BobM wrote:I’d like to second The Agnes Waltz as a TOTM at some point. There’s some links to the .pdf on another post and a Jimmy S recording on YouTube.
noted!

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