Bugari or Piermaria

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colinm
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Bugari or Piermaria

Post by colinm » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:04 pm

Similar spec, 37/96, 3/4, Bugari may be .8 kg lighter, both secondhand
Which would you prefer
Cm


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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by Zevy » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:44 am

Barring the fact that the smaller, non-full sized accordions might be of lesser quality that the full sized models (which may or may not be true), there is absolutely no comparison to Bugari. Piermaria is not in that league.
That said, there is no substitute for actually hearing and playing the instrument(s) yourself.
Good luck!
Zevy
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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by colinm » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:13 pm

Zevy
Thanks, I was not aware there was so much between them, no chance of me trying either they are both 200 miles away, I will pass on the Piermaria.
cm
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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by debra » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:47 pm

colinm wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:04 pm
Similar spec, 37/96, 3/4, Bugari may be .8 kg lighter, both secondhand
Which would you prefer
Cm
...
Sorry, not enough info to say much about it. I'm very familiar with Bugari, but there are low end 37/96 and high end 37/96 accordions. The 281/ARS (artist cassotto), either standard or "gold/silver" edition, is a very nice instrument. A 130/J (juniorfisa) is not nearly as nice. Both are 37/96 and there are more.
I have no real experience with Piermaria but they have nice instruments too. I have tried one (at the Frankfurter Musikmesse) and it was a fine instrument.
Never mind the weight: all manufacturers lie about the weight of their instruments. One maybe a bit more than another, but the only way to know what an instrument weighs is to put it on a scale.
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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by colinm » Tue Jul 31, 2018 9:54 pm

Paul
Well it says Bugari Armando on the accordion , no other numbers that I can see in the photos, I do not want cassotto, it will be too heavy, I have a vignoni cassotto.
Does Armando signify a level of quality?
Cm


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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by colinm » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:27 pm

It also says Juniorfisa


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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by colinm » Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:32 pm

So it is probably model 130J, does that mean it is a bottom of the range instrument ?


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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by maugein96 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:00 am

colinm wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:32 pm
So it is probably model 130J, does that mean it is a bottom of the range instrument ?


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Colin,

It is a Bugari, and a bloody good instrument, regardless. With Bugari, there isn't really a "bottom of the range!"

Here's what it sounds like, even although the player has a tendency to put the odd Irish Republican tune into the mix.

All you need to do is learn to play it like this:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVzXmqMaaUQ

If I was a PA player I reckon this box would probably offer more scope than I'd ever be able to take advantage of. The purists will tell you that Bugari make better, but how deep are your pockets, and more importantly how far do you think you can go?

Anybody learning to play the box who is over 20 years of age will have to accept that the Premier Division is probably out of their reach, but an awful lot of enjoyment can be had from playing in the amateur leagues. I started when I was about 32 (I can't remember exactly), and it wouldn't matter if I had a top of the range box worth £40,000. Best option for me has been an old and decrepit box from about 1970 that I got recently for £995, but it is the box I should have sought out when I was learning, nearly 40 years ago. It is a top of the range instrument I couldn't have afforded when it was newish, but now nobody wants old boxes so I "scored".

Good luck, whatever you decide.

Regards,

John W

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by debra » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:35 am

maugein96 wrote:
Wed Aug 01, 2018 12:00 am
colinm wrote:
Tue Jul 31, 2018 10:32 pm
So it is probably model 130J, does that mean it is a bottom of the range instrument ?
...
Colin,

It is a Bugari, and a bloody good instrument, regardless. With Bugari, there isn't really a "bottom of the range!"

...
Good point. Even the "bottom of the range" with Bugari is still a good instrument.
You have to consider what keyboard range you want. Not every 37/96 offers the same range. The Juniorfisa uses the 37 notes to cover G to G whereas some others will cover F to F. (I started out about 50 years ago on an 80 bass Crucianelli which was also G to G. I would say it's a matter of taste whether G to G is better or worse than F to F. At that time either would have done fine.)
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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by jozz » Wed Aug 01, 2018 8:47 am

colinm wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:04 pm
Similar spec, 37/96, 3/4, Bugari may be .8 kg lighter, both secondhand
Which would you prefer
Cm
The Bugari most likely. Although not quite the same as your 37/96...I A/B'ed my current 115 Artist 34/72 to an almost new 305 Piermaria 30/72 last year. Both had tipo-a-mano and 3x3 bass.

I removed the Piermaria from the shortlist later mainly because of the 34 vs. 30 trebles and the reed response of the Bugari, which was/is phenomenal. So maybe the Bugari was better detailed (it was a commissioned build). Bass sound, however, was nicer to my ears on the Piermaria (smoother balance between the low and the high reeds). But I can live with that.

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by colinm » Wed Aug 01, 2018 7:24 pm

Thanks for all your help and information
The most important things for me are :-

1 good quality keyboard and reeds

2 as light as possible , less than 8.5 kg , i have a bad shoulder

3 37/96. 3/4voice for minimum weight

4 full size keys 440mm for 22 keys, i have broad finger tips

The Bugari meets all requirements except keys are only 420 mm i think

Actually i am beginning to think full size keys may not be available on any 3/4 voice unless anyone knows differently


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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by OuijaBoard » Thu Aug 02, 2018 8:20 am

[[[It is a Bugari, and a bloody good instrument, regardless. With Bugari, there isn't really a "bottom of the range!"]]]

Ha, not four hours ago I was perusing the Bugari Juniorfisa 100/J model 26/48 and thinking the same, nearly verbatim. Doubtless one could order with TAM, but looks like a super folk box as is.

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:42 pm

Hi Colin,

I must confess that I know nothing about Piermaria, so my comment is not balanced.

However, a very good friend of mine has a Bugari. I have played it a few times and was very impressed.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by maugein96 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:57 am

Stephen Hawkins wrote:
Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:42 pm
Hi Colin,

I must confess that I know nothing about Piermaria, so my comment is not balanced.

However, a very good friend of mine has a Bugari. I have played it a few times and was very impressed.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

Stephen,

Problem with Piermaria is they relied on their good name to sell instruments in Italy and France. They never seemed to appreciate there was a market outside of those countries, and consequently have remained a "niche" make for some years now.

They were once a mainstream supplier of CBA accordions for the French market with a factory in Paris, but that closed down over 30 years go, and I don't think they sell very many boxes on the French market these days.

They are very well built instruments, made to last, but their rather staid image seems to have relegated them into the French second division, for the moment.

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:36 pm

Hi John,

Thank you for that information, as I really didn't have a clue about Piermaria accordions.

Of the two makes mentioned, I would undoubtedly go for the Bugari, but that has more to do with familiarity than it does with any fault with the other instrument. (Better the Devil you know)

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by maugein96 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:52 pm

Stephen Hawkins wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 9:36 pm
Hi John,

Thank you for that information, as I really didn't have a clue about Piermaria accordions.

Of the two makes mentioned, I would undoubtedly go for the Bugari, but that has more to do with familiarity than it does with any fault with the other instrument. (Better the Devil you know)

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
I said I'd never buy another Cavagnolo and bought one. Seems there were good ones and bad ones, and I've now experienced both. I have a good one now but the last one was dire.

I'm sure Piermaria still have at least one UK distributor in Scotland. I would have bought one years ago if staff in the shop which was selling it talked me into buying another accordion. The box concerned ended up in Marsh Mill, Cleveleys, but I had a bad experience there with an order I placed for a new Piermaria in 1994, and I never went looking for it. Is that place still on the go? I know that Norman Quinlan died in 2003, and there's still an advert on the web. The order is a long story and I'll tell you about it sometime.

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by Eddy Yates » Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:29 pm

Boaz Accordions, sadly gone for years, was a wonderful accordion center in Berkeley, California. As a pianist in a bluegrass band full of virtuosos, I bought a Bugari Blue 72 from Boaz so I could play along on the tour bus. I still have it and love playing it, but it doesn’t look like any of Bugari’s other 72s. I remember Boaz saying it was his own design. He marketed it as the “Blue 72”, and this one was supposedly the first one he got from Bugari. The grill looks different, it has stereo mics, and although it is the size of a Juniorfisa with smaller keys, the only plate besides the Armando Bugari tuning fork logo is one that says “Silver.” I’ll post some pictures later if there’s a simple way to post in this forum. (Any more information on my accordion or how to SIMPLY post a picture appreciated.) It plays beautifully and sounds great.
Bugari “Blue 72”, Tiger Combo ‘Cordion

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by donn » Fri Aug 17, 2018 3:34 pm

Eddy Yates wrote:
Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:29 pm
I’ll post some pictures later if there’s a simple way to post in this forum. (Any more information on my accordion or how to SIMPLY post a picture appreciated.) It plays beautifully and sounds great.
I can guarantee that a few of us will be interested to see.

Here's my idea of how to post a picture:
  1. Put the accordion in a place with good, indirect light, preferably natural daylight, and take a digital photo.
  2. Transfer that photo to your computer.
  3. Make a copy of that photo, and edit it, so that it's a 1000 pixels on a side or less. Most digital cameras create far larger images than we need, so they just waste space and download transfer time, only to be reduced anyway so we can see the whole thing. The forum gives us space for free for images; it's our responsibility not to waste it. On MacOS X, use Preview, Tools->Adjust Size. 1000x1000 is still pretty big. You may also wish to adjust exposure, color etc. at this time.
  4. Come here and start a post.
  5. "Drag" the image file you made, onto the text you're editing. Or, if that doesn't work, ...
  6. ... Beneath the edit window, note a pair of tabs <Options, Attachments>; select Attachments, and select <Add Files> and work with the browser to locate your image file.

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by Eddy Yates » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:14 pm

Bugari 1 reduced.jpg
Thanks, Donn.
Bugari “Blue 72”, Tiger Combo ‘Cordion

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Re: Bugari or Piermaria

Post by Eddy Yates » Fri Aug 17, 2018 6:34 pm

Bugari "Blue 72" from Boaz Rubin
Bugari reduced 2.jpg
bugari reduced 3.jpg
Any more information about this accordion greatly appreciated. I can't track down Boaz, who closed his shop in the 90's. When I bought it, I wasn't quite the fanatic I am now, so just took the box and started playing it. Thus, I didn't ask him the questions I should have, such as: "what makes this accordion special?" "how is it different from the standard Juniorfisa?" "did you install the mics, or did Bugari, and what are they?" " what do you call this musette tuning?"
I really consider myself a beginner, compared to the way I play the piano and the way really great accordionists play, but nevertheless, I've been hired to record with it on 4 or 5 records. It sounds really good!
As a professional pianist, I'm hooked now....and this forum is turning into a fairly modest obsession for me. But thanks, anyway!
Bugari “Blue 72”, Tiger Combo ‘Cordion

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