question on strange chord

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henrikhank
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question on strange chord

Post by henrikhank » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:07 pm

How the...do you play Bbdim (Bb-C#-E) on accordion?
It's kinda difficult right?!
There are other ways to harmonize the melody (maybe A since the chords leads D7/A) but I hope that's not the only way to solve this.

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Re: question on strange chord

Post by wout » Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:28 pm

I would say maybe it sounds stupid, but play a c# minor chord together with the A# bassnote in the bass?

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Re: question on strange chord

Post by JIM D. » Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:39 pm

Give this a Thorough Read --
http://www.dannychesnut.com/Music/Accor ... hcomb.html
You might want to save this - :tup:
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Re: question on strange chord

Post by Zevy » Thu Feb 08, 2018 11:14 pm

henrikhank wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:07 pm
How the...do you play Bbdim (Bb-C#-E) on accordion?
It's kinda difficult right?!
There are other ways to harmonize the melody (maybe A since the chords leads D7/A) but I hope that's not the only way to solve this.
What's wrong with playing the Bb dim bass button?
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Glenn
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Re: question on strange chord

Post by Glenn » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:51 am

Maybe it’s a 3x3 bass layout?


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Re: question on strange chord

Post by jozz » Fri Feb 09, 2018 7:25 am

JIM D. wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 6:39 pm
Give this a Thorough Read --
http://www.dannychesnut.com/Music/Accor ... hcomb.html
You might want to save this - :tup:
This page assumes you have the Dim7 row but does not mention Bb dim as a result, does it? At least I don't see it.

So interesting question. Not that I am into dim7 chords much, but I also have an accordion without it.

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Re: question on strange chord

Post by Geronimo » Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:20 am

Glenn wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:51 am
Maybe it’s a 3x3 bass layout?
A 3x3 has B♭dim on the E♭7 button (on a 3x3, the Major 7th chord row is not missing the 5th but the 1st, so E♭7 is G-B♭-D♭).

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debra
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Re: question on strange chord

Post by debra » Fri Feb 09, 2018 10:30 am

Geronimo wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 9:20 am
Glenn wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:51 am
Maybe it’s a 3x3 bass layout?
A 3x3 has B♭dim on the E♭7 button (on a 3x3, the Major 7th chord row is not missing the 5th but the 1st, so E♭7 is G-B♭-D♭).
Except that some 3x3 or 2x3 accordion makers have decided to give the instrument a full 7th chord which renders the 7th unusable for simulating Dim (of the one row above).
There is an upside to that flaw: if the 7th is complete, like C7 is C-E-G-B♭ you can quite easily change the bass mechanism to remove the base note from the 7th (like removing C from C7). It requires breaking off one pin from each of the outermost series of pistons in the mechanism (so the ones that are easiest to reach).
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Re: question on strange chord

Post by GOM » Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:28 pm

How the...do you play Bbdim (Bb-C#-E) on accordion?
It's kinda difficult right?!
There are other ways to harmonize the melody (maybe A since the chords leads D7/A) but I hope that's not the only way to solve this.
The chord (Bb-C#-E) from my jazz days is also Bb-7b5. Enharmonic Bb Db Fb. The scale usually used to play, improvise over this chord is Lydian aug starting on b5 i.e. E,Gb,Ab,Bb,C,Db,Eb,E

As to how to actually play it I leave to the experts being now a complete CBA novice. I think I’ll stick to saxophone!
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Re: question on strange chord

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Feb 09, 2018 2:50 pm

henrikhank wrote:
Thu Feb 08, 2018 5:07 pm
How the...do you play Bbdim (Bb-C#-E) on accordion?
Two ways spring to mind, assuming you have a standard, 6 buttons-per-row accordion (2+4 configuration).

The first thing I'd try is just to play it as a full Bb dim7 chord, using the dim button on the Bb row. Often lead sheets--particularly in the jazz idiom--will notate a chord as the simplest form of the chord that gets the point across. But that doesn't mean you can't add more notes to the chord if that makes sense given the harmony of the piece. (In jazz, in fact, you're expected to do this.) So try it and see if it sounds okay.

If that doesn't work, and you really need just a Bb dim triad, try using the C# dim chord button with the counterbass of F# (which is A#), or use the Db dim chord button with the counterbass of Gb (which is Bb).

If your accordion is like most, it leaves out the third note of the diminished 7th chord (which is the flat-fifth). So a C#dim7, which should be C#, E, G, Bb, really winds up just being C#, E, Bb. (Same for the Db dim.)

Edited to add a third idea: Don't play a chord button in the left hand at all. Just play the Bb bass note. Fill in the Bb dim chord in the right hand if you feel the tune needs it.
Last edited by JeffJetton on Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: question on strange chord

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Feb 09, 2018 3:03 pm

GOM wrote:
Fri Feb 09, 2018 12:28 pm
The chord (Bb-C#-E) from my jazz days is also Bb-7b5. Enharmonic Bb Db Fb.
Technically, it's just the first three notes of the Bb-7b5 (or Bb half-diminished, as the classical folks call it). The missing note is the flat 7th... Ab. In fact, that's the note that distinguishes the chord from a fully-diminished 7th chord (which would have a double-flat 7th... Abb aka "G").

The nice thing about minor-seven-flat-five chords is that the "upper structure" (the top three notes) forms a plain old minor chord. So you can play it in the LH on accordion even though there's not a dedicated button for it.

For example, the Bb-7b5 can be thought of as the notes Bb, Db, E, Ab, which is equal to a Bb bass note plus a Db minor chord. (I usually play the bass note in the counterbass, which puts the minor chord just "one floor up". But it's not too much of a stretch to use the regular bass row instead if you want.)

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Re: question on strange chord

Post by HPC364 » Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:06 pm

Hi !
It depends of the tune and where the chord is located, a diminished chord means a dominant chord (normally dominant rootless) but dim7 it's a dominant b9 rootless but the nice thing with it is that we don't really know which root it is, you should think about its function not about its colour.
Very great thread, thanks for posting this.

Bbdim7 (Bb Db E G) = A7b9 = C7b9 = Eb7b9 = F#7b9 (all rootless, in fact second row of of a C system)...

With your Bbdim, try C7, F#7, A7

Bb Db E one of these three notes might be the third of a dominant chord.

If it is not it's something else.

Sorry for that.

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