learning the bass side

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learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:36 pm

hello been a little
while since I was
last on here

my question is this
so I'm now learning
multiple pieces at
the same time and
it has so far been going
quit well rather than being
so fixated on going 100$%
on one song as I think
in the long run now that
less is more. anyway so
iv'e noticed that the
most extinguishing part of
learning a new song is the bass
jumps as every time I go to the
next song I end up spending a
little while on the jumps required

I don't suppose anyone would
have any methods for learning
them as every time I learn a new song
I have to practice the jump. I'd prefer
a way to learn the jumps for the bass before
learning the songs. as with a knowledge of
how to do the jumps before learning the song
I would have alot more songs I can play.

thanks

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JerryPH
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Re: learning the bass side

Post by JerryPH » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:08 pm

Yup... it is called practicing. I doubt anyone anywhere else in the world will be able to suggest a different method to learning a specific technique in preparation for playing any piece of music.

"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure."
Colin Powell

"There is no short cut to achievement. Life requires thorough preparation - veneer isn't worth anything."
George Washington Carver

I don't want to be snide, but if you spent as much time practicing as you do looking for shortcuts, I think you would be much further ahead of the game. ;)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:58 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:08 pm
Yup... it is called practicing. I doubt anyone anywhere else in the world will be able to suggest a different method to learning a specific technique in preparation for playing any piece of music.

"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure."
Colin Powell

"There is no short cut to achievement. Life requires thorough preparation - veneer isn't worth anything."
George Washington Carver

I don't want to be snide, but if you spent as much time practicing as you do looking for shortcuts, I think you would be much further ahead of the game. ;)
well I wouldn't put it
as shortcuts as I don't
mind getting it wrong
however I think the
thing before was I was
setting unrealistic expectations
for myself and when I would
get it wrong I would practice for
hours only stressing me out and
stopping me from playing well
at all and so would look at everything
to try and correct myself.

what i meant by the post is are there any
ways of practising the bass jumps
as it's getting a little tiring playing the jumps
before the song all the time.

I'd much prefer to spend alot of time and
effort on jumps regardless of song so that
when I choose the next song to learn I will
be able to play the whole song or at least
segments.

eg. if I practice at random c to e and then
the song I choose next has c to e then I can
just play it.

thanks

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by Mike D » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:13 pm

Just do it! :b

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by JeffJetton » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:45 pm

Well, one tactic you could try is simply not playing songs that leap from C to E. Not right now, at least.

By which I mean, focus on playing songs where the chords only move to the very next "floor" up or down. No leaps at all. Get to where you can play those sorts of songs perfectly without really thinking about it much. (You might already be at that point for all I know).

Then start to mix in songs where you might skip only one floor. Go from F to G in the key of C, for example. Again, get to where you can execute that small "leapfrog" jump perfectly almost every time.

Then begin to work on leaps where you skip two floors. And so on. You get the idea. Eventually you'll get to the giant leaps like C to E, and it won't be as difficult because you will have already mastered all the leaps that are smaller than that.

This will take time. But it will take less time than any other way of doing it.

After all, you don't learn to get a ball in the goal from across the field by starting out practicing that way! You start up close and get good at that, then start inching your way farther and farther away... only making the distance farther when you've mastered the distance you're on.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by wout » Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:58 pm

Play some Yann Tiersen accordion songs. Like la valse de amelie. There are maybe some parts in the right hand that will be to difficult for you at this stage but you want to practice bassjumps. The advantage is with his music, its not very complicated and the basschords stay the same in the entire song (most of them at least). If you practice 3 songs for example you learn already 4 or 5 jumps. The good thing is once your hand is trained to do the jumps, you can use them for other music as well. Since there are only 12 notes in the left side most easy songs dont require a jump bigger then 4 notes up or down.

Some songs with easy chords:
La valse damelie
Le banquet
La noyee
Lautre valse damelie.

Just focus on the bass careful to not push yourself to play to fast or to spend to much time on more complicated parts on the right hand. Once youget the basics you can easily practice the more complicated parts.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:30 pm

wout wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:58 pm
Play some Yann Tiersen accordion songs. Like la valse de amelie. There are maybe some parts in the right hand that will be to difficult for you at this stage but you want to practice bassjumps. The advantage is with his music, its not very complicated and the basschords stay the same in the entire song (most of them at least). If you practice 3 songs for example you learn already 4 or 5 jumps. The good thing is once your hand is trained to do the jumps, you can use them for other music as well. Since there are only 12 notes in the left side most easy songs dont require a jump bigger then 4 notes up or down.

Some songs with easy chords:
La valse damelie
Le banquet
La noyee
Lautre valse damelie.

Just focus on the bass careful to not push yourself to play to fast or to spend to much time on more complicated parts on the right hand. Once youget the basics you can easily practice the more complicated parts.

will definitely have a
look at these ones

thanks.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:45 pm
Well, one tactic you could try is simply not playing songs that leap from C to E. Not right now, at least.

By which I mean, focus on playing songs where the chords only move to the very next "floor" up or down. No leaps at all. Get to where you can play those sorts of songs perfectly without really thinking about it much. (You might already be at that point for all I know).

Then start to mix in songs where you might skip only one floor. Go from F to G in the key of C, for example. Again, get to where you can execute that small "leapfrog" jump perfectly almost every time.

Then begin to work on leaps where you skip two floors. And so on. You get the idea. Eventually you'll get to the giant leaps like C to E, and it won't be as difficult because you will have already mastered all the leaps that are smaller than that.

This will take time. But it will take less time than any other way of doing it.

After all, you don't learn to get a ball in the goal from across the field by starting out practicing that way! You start up close and get good at that, then start inching your way farther and farther away... only making the distance farther when you've mastered the distance you're on.
I like the sound of this
however cant find out
how to look for songs
by requirements. I know
wout has suggested some
which I will definatley look at
.do you have any others you
could suggest me and just
so ya know im currently at the
I can play the songs with 3 chords
pretty well. (pretty well being I
mess up on right hand)

thanks

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by JerryPH » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:20 am

accordian wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 pm
I can play the songs with 3 chords pretty well. (pretty well being I mess up on right hand)
If you are messing up the right hand at that level, stop over-reaching for harder material. A house built on quicksand is going to sink. This means that if your BASE knowledge and abilities are weak, you need to work on those BEFORE going to more advanced pieces.

Not doing so is only going to frustrate you and eventually cause you to stop playing, so... all that effort was wasted for nothing because you did not do the obvious... walk before you can run.

How is your search for an accordion teacher that you can go visit on a regular basis coming along?
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by xocd » Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:56 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 2:08 pm
Yup... it is called practicing. I doubt anyone anywhere else in the world will be able to suggest a different method to learning a specific technique in preparation for playing any piece of music.

"There are no secrets to success. It is the result of preparation, hard work, and learning from failure."
Colin Powell

"There is no short cut to achievement. Life requires thorough preparation - veneer isn't worth anything."
George Washington Carver

I don't want to be snide, but if you spent as much time practicing as you do looking for shortcuts, I think you would be much further ahead of the game. ;)
"μή εἶναι βασιλικήν ατραπόν επί γεωμετρίαν"
"There is no royal road to geometry"
Euclid
xocd
Somerville, MA

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by Corinto » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:24 pm

And the secret is ...
secret-ingredient-cartoon-450x318.png
Carpe diem, C.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by Geronimo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:34 pm

xocd wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:56 pm
"μή εἶναι βασιλικήν ατραπόν επί γεωμετρίαν"
"There is no royal road to geometry"
Euclid
Quoting Euklides in modern one-accent system seems weird. But then I am an old fogey.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by Geronimo » Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:35 pm

Corinto wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 7:24 pm
And the secret is ...

secret-ingredient-cartoon-450x318.png
Bass makes a great soup ingredient.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:11 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:20 am
accordian wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:34 pm
I can play the songs with 3 chords pretty well. (pretty well being I mess up on right hand)
If you are messing up the right hand at that level, stop over-reaching for harder material. A house built on quicksand is going to sink. This means that if your BASE knowledge and abilities are weak, you need to work on those BEFORE going to more advanced pieces.

Not doing so is only going to frustrate you and eventually cause you to stop playing, so... all that effort was wasted for nothing because you did not do the obvious... walk before you can run.

How is your search for an accordion teacher that you can go visit on a regular basis coming along?
I didn't mean like that but rather
my left hand doesn't mess up
i only sometimes screw up on my
right and even then it's very rare
at this point like I say my right hand is
fine if I find a hard song on right then
I look at fingerings an then practice.
in terms of right hand no problem

just the left hand.
and I took jeff's suggestion
of trying each jump one by
one so first do a c to g then a
c to d and keep making the
jump bigger and have so far
been practising that way.

as for accordion teacher at the
moment no real luck I tried
contacting one that would do it over
skype however no response. oh well

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:11 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 6:45 pm
Well, one tactic you could try is simply not playing songs that leap from C to E. Not right now, at least.

By which I mean, focus on playing songs where the chords only move to the very next "floor" up or down. No leaps at all. Get to where you can play those sorts of songs perfectly without really thinking about it much. (You might already be at that point for all I know).

Then start to mix in songs where you might skip only one floor. Go from F to G in the key of C, for example. Again, get to where you can execute that small "leapfrog" jump perfectly almost every time.

Then begin to work on leaps where you skip two floors. And so on. You get the idea. Eventually you'll get to the giant leaps like C to E, and it won't be as difficult because you will have already mastered all the leaps that are smaller than that.

This will take time. But it will take less time than any other way of doing it.

After all, you don't learn to get a ball in the goal from across the field by starting out practicing that way! You start up close and get good at that, then start inching your way farther and farther away... only making the distance farther when you've mastered the distance you're on.
thanks for the
tip

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by JeffJetton » Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:37 pm

accordian wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:11 pm
and I took jeff's suggestion
of trying each jump one by
one so first do a c to g then a
c to d and keep making the
jump bigger and have so far
been practising that way.
Great! Although I guess I meant more that you should play and learn songs that jump in that fashion, rather than just practice the jumps in isolation. That is, learn a bunch of no-leap songs. Play them for weeks or months or however long it takes to really get them essentially mistake-free in the left hand. Then slowly mix in short leapers. Get those songs sounding perfect, which may again take weeks or months or whatever. Then toss in some songs with longer leaps, and so on.

But hey, if doing it as a progressive exercise is working too, go for it!

This is why I like learning from method books. If you don't have the Palmer-Hughes books, I recommend them. They probably won't have the songs that you're dying to play in them. But they are progressively ordered. That is, they start very simple, then generally build slowly--adding a new technique or longer leap one-at-a-time. As long as you don't move on to the next piece before gaining an acceptable competency with what came before, you'll be in business.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:55 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 2:37 pm
accordian wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:11 pm
and I took jeff's suggestion
of trying each jump one by
one so first do a c to g then a
c to d and keep making the
jump bigger and have so far
been practising that way.
Great! Although I guess I meant more that you should play and learn songs that jump in that fashion, rather than just practice the jumps in isolation. That is, learn a bunch of no-leap songs. Play them for weeks or months or however long it takes to really get them essentially mistake-free in the left hand. Then slowly mix in short leapers. Get those songs sounding perfect, which may again take weeks or months or whatever. Then toss in some songs with longer leaps, and so on.

But hey, if doing it as a progressive exercise is working too, go for it!

This is why I like learning from method books. If you don't have the Palmer-Hughes books, I recommend them. They probably won't have the songs that you're dying to play in them. But they are progressively ordered. That is, they start very simple, then generally build slowly--adding a new technique or longer leap one-at-a-time. As long as you don't move on to the next piece before gaining an acceptable competency with what came before, you'll be in business.
I wasn't aware of that.
I just thought the books
had easier song for beginners
I will definatley have a look into
these books.

as for the songs I have been trying
to find songs with a 1 button jump or 2
or 3 etc. but no luck but as you said if these
books are this good and contain these songs
with varying difficulty then I will have to have
a look.

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by JerryPH » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:17 am

accordian wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:55 pm
... as you said if these books are this good and contain these songs with varying difficulty then I will have to have a look.
That is a bit surprising. The entire reason for the series of books is specifically because they do get progressively more advanced. Any and all method books do this, that is why they exist and what they are made for.
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by accordian » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:35 pm

JerryPH wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:17 am
accordian wrote:
Wed Mar 14, 2018 8:55 pm
... as you said if these books are this good and contain these songs with varying difficulty then I will have to have a look.
That is a bit surprising. The entire reason for the series of books is specifically because they do get progressively more advanced. Any and all method books do this, that is why they exist and what they are made for.
I just thought these books
where easy tunes but not
getting progressively harde

so far I think the hardest part
which is stopping me progress
is my muscle memory as
I learned the 3 chord songs fairly
quick and have been practicing
harder songs such as lambada.
however I don't understand when
I start trying to play the song
how I should go about it?
such as I tell myself to just play
the song but when I start playing and
it feels normal but that's also how it
felt before I practised the jumps. so
if it feels normal / the same as before
does it mean the muscle memory
is working? I mean eg. song of storms
sometimes it's 100% perfect others
10%

every time I practice to be honest it's
starting to make me a little paranoid
because memory wise I can't remember
"put my hand here and move this far
to get this button" and so as I wrote above
when I play normally is my muscle memory working?
at this point I have practised so much and tried
all the different ways that unless it's
a 3 chord song or something similar
then when I try to just play normally. i'm not
sure if i'm not playing normally because i'm
trying so hard.

thanks for all the help so far
will definatley have to try those books

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Re: learning the bass side

Post by Geronimo » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:21 pm

Obsessive playing may not be the most time-efficient manner of improving one's playing but it does beat obsessive obsessing. There is no royal road to mastership in basically any endeavor.

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