3/6

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henrikhank
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3/6

Post by henrikhank » Sat Apr 21, 2018 1:53 pm

I like the tune Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys. It's in 3/6.
Waltz comping won't work here.
Any ideas for comping?
The famous Phil cunningham (i think is the name) did a documentary in ehich he went to usa and played country stuff. He just layed the chords but I guess that's because he played with guitarists.

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Re: 3/6

Post by donn » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:09 pm

I don't understand what "3/6" means, can you explain that?

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Re: 3/6

Post by wout » Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:48 pm

I guess the rythm is 3 eith 6 measures but thats basically a waltz already right

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Re: 3/6

Post by JeffJetton » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:31 pm

donn wrote:
Sat Apr 21, 2018 3:09 pm
I don't understand what "3/6" means, can you explain that?
Three beats to a measure and the, um... sixth note gets one beat?

:D

Okay, really that song is just a fast waltz (3/4).

You could make a good argument for 6/8 too, given the strong "two" feel.

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Re: 3/6

Post by Anyanka » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:36 pm

I've had a quick listen, and it is a waltz - i.e. 3/4 - but quite fast. You could just play a block chord on the first beat of each bar. Alternatively, bass note on the first bar, chord on the second.

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Re: 3/6

Post by maugein96 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 5:59 pm

This topic takes me back a bit.

When I was in Istanbul in the late 70s a band playing in a nightclub agreed to let me take the stage and play a few numbers on electric guitar, after being approached by several of my colleagues, who were all rather merry at the time.

I was scared when the other guitarist told me that they were about to play an Asian rhythm in 9/8. When I asked what that was he said "Don't worry about it. Just listen and you'll either get it or you won't!"

Turns out I did, but I'm glad I wasn't trying to play an accordion!

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Re: 3/6

Post by henrikhank » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:25 am

The tune is in 6/8 time.
I don't see how a 3/4 comp would work in 6/8.
If you count 123456. The drummer will play the accented beat on count 4.
Any ideas or maybe accordion recordings in 6/8?

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Re: 3/6

Post by JeffJetton » Sun Apr 22, 2018 4:09 pm

henrikhank wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:25 am
The tune is in 6/8 time.
I don't see how a 3/4 comp would work in 6/8.
If you count 123456. The drummer will play the accented beat on count 4.
Any ideas or maybe accordion recordings in 6/8?
Well technically any accordionist playing a jig or tarantella is playing in 6/8. A fast oom-pah-pah (or, better yet, an oom-rest-pah) works fine there, no question about it.

The difference with this song is, as you noted, the "half time" drum part. I guess it's really sort of a polyrhythm... a slow 2/4 on the drums, along with a quick 6/8 played by everybody else:

Code: Select all

Others: oom pah pah oom pah pah oom pah pah oom pah pah

Drums:  oom         pah         oom         pah
Some examples of other songs with the same "half-time 6/8" feel:

Walk on the Ocean
A Thousand Years

Okay, so how to pull this off on solo accordion? Good question. If someone's figured out how to do both of those two rhythms, I'd love to learn about it. Until then, I would just pick one of those two and go with that.

So you could do the 2/4 "drum" rhythm: ooo-rest-rest-pah-rest-rest (with the "pah" ideally being the chord and alternate bass simultaneously). That can get a little spare though, especially if the melody isn't very rhythmically active.

Or you could do the "others" rhythm, which is indeed sort of like a fast waltz. You really want to be sure to accent the "ooms" and de-emphasize the "pahs" though.

For "Mamas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to be Cowboys", I kinda prefer the latter. YMMV.

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Re: 3/6

Post by jozz » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:18 pm

Another vote for the "other" rythm described by Jeff (2 and 5 could be ghost notes if you want to cut down on button presses)

I don't see how you can get the song's vibe across any other way on solo accordion

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Re: 3/6

Post by Anyanka » Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:25 pm

henrikhank wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:25 am
The tune is in 6/8 time.
I don't see how a 3/4 comp would work in 6/8.
If you count 123456. The drummer will play the accented beat on count 4.
Any ideas or maybe accordion recordings in 6/8?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlIEoKg8ZQg - definitely 3/4, not 6/8. The difference is that you can count a 6/8 as two beats per bar, whereas this is clearly ONE two three. I'd want to do a walking bass at least partway, i.e. descending scale on the bass notes (no chords), on the ONE. As well as the other two suggestions I made previously. Combine them. Keep changing it, keep it interesting.

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Re: 3/6

Post by donn » Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:11 pm

Anyanka wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 5:25 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nlIEoKg8ZQg - definitely 3/4, not 6/8. The difference is that you can count a 6/8 as two beats per bar, whereas this is clearly ONE two three.
That's an interesting distinction - I suppose you can count just about anything in two, if you want, so I guess there's more to this. Taking it as 3/4, the bass and drums seem make a fairly consistent distinction between odd and even measures, which I take it could be grounds for putting them together to make 6/8. But that phenomenon is also rather common in cut time march music, where I'd be playing tuba - I'll find at least a tenuous distinction between the odd and even measures, but no one would say it's therefore 4/4.

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Re: 3/6

Post by JeffJetton » Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:55 pm

donn wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 6:11 pm
Taking it as 3/4, the bass and drums seem make a fairly consistent distinction between odd and even measures, which I take it could be grounds for putting them together to make 6/8.
Yup.

I would count this sort of thing like this: ONE-two-three-TWO-two-three

Whether that's 3/4 or 6/8 or 6/4 or 12/8... I guess it really doesn't matter how you conceptualize it as long as you play the song right. :D

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Re: 3/6

Post by JEBrown » Sun Apr 22, 2018 10:17 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Sun Apr 22, 2018 9:55 pm
Whether that's 3/4 or 6/8 or 6/4 or 12/8... I guess it really doesn't matter how you conceptualize it as long as you play the song right. :D
Well yes... but maybe conceptualising it correctly is the key to playing the song right! Or maybe the composer using the right time signature to translate the idea in their brain into something on paper which means other people can play the song the way it was intended.
John

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Re: 3/6

Post by donn » Mon Apr 23, 2018 2:04 am

I think paper would be a poor bet for something like this tune. For notes OK, if needed, but you'd better listen to it for the feel, so it's more or less an academic question. (Now, how to achieve that on accordion, which I guess was really the question, ... no idea.)

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