National anthem

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henrikhank
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National anthem

Post by henrikhank » Thu May 31, 2018 9:18 pm

I am going to perform some tunes on Wednesday (nationaldagen).
According to the info I received they will hoist the flag (is that how you say it?) and sing the national anthem (Du gamla du fria). This is not a part of the tunes my band practiced. I guess another band will play this tune.
I was wondering if it would be appropriate to join in with the accordion.
Have you ever done it with your national anthem?
Wouldn't it be difficult to figure out the key (which singers also need to) and the chords? But even if you play dance music you'll have to figure out the chords. And if poor\bad singers join in why not let the trained accordionist join in?!
What are your experiences?

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Re: National anthem

Post by Geronimo » Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 pm

henrikhank wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:18 pm
I am going to perform some tunes on Wednesday (nationaldagen).
According to the info I received they will hoist the flag (is that how you say it?) and sing the national anthem (Du gamla du fria). This is not a part of the tunes my band practiced. I guess another band will play this tune.
I was wondering if it would be appropriate to join in with the accordion.
Have you ever done it with your national anthem?
Wouldn't it be difficult to figure out the key (which singers also need to) and the chords? But even if you play dance music you'll have to figure out the chords. And if poor\bad singers join in why not let the trained accordionist join in?!
What are your experiences?
Practice this beforehand. National anthems try to be distinctive and I've found them annoyingly obstinate regarding simple chord progressions. And since they are slow and stately, chord progressions are often per note instead of per measure, further aggravating things. If you get the chord progression right, transposing on the fly should not be hard (but they will tend to be played at expected pitch so that everybody and brass can drawl along), and playing the treble by ear in whatever transposition should not be all that tricky either.

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jozz
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Re: National anthem

Post by jozz » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:21 am

isn't it a crime to transpose a national anthem?

I've played ours many times, but always in the original key. Anyway for anything else I would just enter it at home into my music app and transpose on my phone if needed.

henrikhank
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Re: National anthem

Post by henrikhank » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:14 am

Geronimo wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 pm
henrikhank wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:18 pm
I am going to perform some tunes on Wednesday (nationaldagen).
According to the info I received they will hoist the flag (is that how you say it?) and sing the national anthem (Du gamla du fria). This is not a part of the tunes my band practiced. I guess another band will play this tune.
I was wondering if it would be appropriate to join in with the accordion.
Have you ever done it with your national anthem?
Wouldn't it be difficult to figure out the key (which singers also need to) and the chords? But even if you play dance music you'll have to figure out the chords. And if poor\bad singers join in why not let the trained accordionist join in?!
What are your experiences?
Practice this beforehand. National anthems try to be distinctive and I've found them annoyingly obstinate regarding simple chord progressions. And since they are slow and stately, chord progressions are often per note instead of per measure, further aggravating things. If you get the chord progression right, transposing on the fly should not be hard (but they will tend to be played at expected pitch so that everybody and brass can drawl along), and playing the treble by ear in whatever transposition should not be all that tricky either.
But how does the accordionist find out the chords without getting the arrangement beforehand?
Dance music I find has standard chord progressions (although some leadsheats might change the progression slightly) so these chords are easier to find. Even if they play a more advance version of the dance tunes it's all based on the simple progresions.
The national anthemls don't have a standard progression. Not even original key or...?
Aren't national anthems played with mire advance progressions than dance music?

henrikhank
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Re: National anthem

Post by henrikhank » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:15 am

jozz wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:21 am
isn't it a crime to transpose a national anthem?

I've played ours many times, but always in the original key. Anyway for anything else I would just enter it at home into my music app and transpose on my phone if needed.
How do you find out thw original key?

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Re: National anthem

Post by Geronimo » Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:35 am

henrikhank wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:14 am
Geronimo wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 pm
henrikhank wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:18 pm
I am going to perform some tunes on Wednesday (nationaldagen).
According to the info I received they will hoist the flag (is that how you say it?) and sing the national anthem (Du gamla du fria). This is not a part of the tunes my band practiced. I guess another band will play this tune.
I was wondering if it would be appropriate to join in with the accordion.
Have you ever done it with your national anthem?
Wouldn't it be difficult to figure out the key (which singers also need to) and the chords? But even if you play dance music you'll have to figure out the chords. And if poor\bad singers join in why not let the trained accordionist join in?!
What are your experiences?
Practice this beforehand. National anthems try to be distinctive and I've found them annoyingly obstinate regarding simple chord progressions. And since they are slow and stately, chord progressions are often per note instead of per measure, further aggravating things. If you get the chord progression right, transposing on the fly should not be hard (but they will tend to be played at expected pitch so that everybody and brass can drawl along), and playing the treble by ear in whatever transposition should not be all that tricky either.
But how does the accordionist find out the chords without getting the arrangement beforehand?
Why wouldn't you get an arrangement beforehand? It's not like national anthems will be arranged with Jazz chord progressions occasionally: any innovativeness would be considered sacrilegious. So it's very unlikely that any arrangement you'd get would be unsuitable for use.

At any rate, when "joining in" you might get along with just melody play anyway.

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jozz
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Re: National anthem

Post by jozz » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:15 pm

henrikhank wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:15 am
How do you find out thw original key?
good question, guess depends on the history of your anthem

In our case, we are lucky, we have this old book/document where the original tune is written on. The decision to expand the tune to our anthem in 1932 was made with that document.

henrikhank
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Re: National anthem

Post by henrikhank » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:03 pm

Geronimo wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:35 am
henrikhank wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:14 am
Geronimo wrote:
Thu May 31, 2018 9:39 pm

Practice this beforehand. National anthems try to be distinctive and I've found them annoyingly obstinate regarding simple chord progressions. And since they are slow and stately, chord progressions are often per note instead of per measure, further aggravating things. If you get the chord progression right, transposing on the fly should not be hard (but they will tend to be played at expected pitch so that everybody and brass can drawl along), and playing the treble by ear in whatever transposition should not be all that tricky either.
But how does the accordionist find out the chords without getting the arrangement beforehand?
Why wouldn't you get an arrangement beforehand? It's not like national anthems will be arranged with Jazz chord progressions occasionally: any innovativeness would be considered sacrilegious. So it's very unlikely that any arrangement you'd get would be unsuitable for use.

At any rate, when "joining in" you might get along with just melody play anyway.
So you mean that I should ask the band what arrangement they will be playing or should I just find some on the internet and then play them and then try to find out the chords by ear when arriving at the ceremony?
What has and hasn't work for you?
Why would an accordionist only play the melody?

henrikhank
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Re: National anthem

Post by henrikhank » Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:07 pm

jozz wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:15 pm
henrikhank wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:15 am
How do you find out thw original key?
good question, guess depends on the history of your anthem

In our case, we are lucky, we have this old book/document where the original tune is written on. The decision to expand the tune to our anthem in 1932 was made with that document.
So everone play that arrangement unless they're trying to sound like a Jazz guy?

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Re: National anthem

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:58 pm

henrikhank wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 11:15 am
How do you find out the original key?
The original Key of our national anthem is Francis Scott.

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jozz
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Re: National anthem

Post by jozz » Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:15 am

henrikhank wrote:
Fri Jun 01, 2018 3:07 pm
So everone play that arrangement unless they're trying to sound like a Jazz guy?
well the melody tune, like most anthems, is very straightforward and recognizable so that part is what it is

but in our case you could certainly play with the other part, the chords, like changing their intervals and such

donn
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Re: National anthem

Post by donn » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:01 pm

A couple of observations on review of youtube videos: It does get performed in various keys, and the bass part is interesting. It sounds fine on accordion (one of the videos), but the left hand has to be worked out. If the bass is already covered - if there is a band - then it would be sensible to leave the bass part to them and just play the melody.

There's a common harmonic feature that is so characteristic, in at least the few anthems I've played, that ignorant of the music theory to properly identify it, I think of it as the anthem effect - the II chord temporarily becomes a dominant 7, as though the key shifted up one sharp. Here too, but a little different, in that it isn't so brief - this arrangement is Bb, and almost right way it shifts to F and stays there for a bit, and in particular C is alway C7, never Cm. With the additional wrinkle that the transition comes with the melody holding a D, against a C7. I suppose it just goes to show I "need to get out more", musically speaking, but it's novel to me - and not the harmony I'd have guessed, if just handed the tune.
https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du_gamla,_du_fria
Last edited by donn on Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

henrikhank
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Re: National anthem

Post by henrikhank » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:04 pm

donn wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:01 pm
A couple of observations on review of youtube videos: It does get performed in various keys, and the bass part is interesting. It sounds fine on accordion (one of the videos), but the left hand has to be worked out. If the bass is already covered - if there is a band - then it would be sensible to leave the bass part to them and just play the melody.
Do you also leave the bass part when playing at dances? I have some but not much experiences with dances and I play the bass part even of there is another person doing it.
I do not know at which dances you play at but I play gammaldans (tunes like Hambo på logen, some kind of Engelska or Äppelbo gånglåt).
When do you leave out the bass part?
People deal with this in different ways I suppose.

donn
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Re: National anthem

Post by donn » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:25 pm

Oh, for me, my left hand always plays. I haven't had to think about that, as I don't play with a band, but I suppose I'd continue to play the left side on that English Morris stuff, as my predecessor did when I was playing the tuba there. It really depends on the band, and in this case the situation, where you have only a couple days to find out what the ensemble will be, and the arrangement. I know there are styles where the accordionists rarely use their left side, for example Norteño.

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