portal

To discuss / ask questions about learning methods/styles/teachers/techniques etc.
Post Reply
accordian
Star
Star
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

portal

Post by accordian » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:15 pm

hello i'm looking to learn portal still alive and am slowly piecing
it together however I am stuck with what the chords are i'm
using chordify to try and find out what i'm looking at but it's not
quite right this is where im stuck https://youtu.be/TAgJRLXGc8k?t=35
I get that it's f then c and then bb but after that happens twice I don't
know what's next

thanks

User avatar
jozz
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 737
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:03 am
Location: Hilvarenbeek, The Netherlands

Re: portal

Post by jozz » Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:00 am

From that point I hear:

F - C | Bb - F
F - C | Bb - F

and then:

Bb - C | F/C - F
Bb - A

And then I'm at 0:50 and another part starts.

accordian
Star
Star
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

Re: portal

Post by accordian » Wed Jun 06, 2018 11:17 am

jozz wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 9:00 am
From that point I hear:

F - C | Bb - F
F - C | Bb - F

and then:

Bb - C | F/C - F
Bb - A

And then I'm at 0:50 and another part starts.
alrighty I will give that a try later thanks

xocd
Intermediate
Intermediate
Posts: 114
Joined: Fri Mar 31, 2017 8:26 pm
Location: Somerville, MA, USA

Re: portal

Post by xocd » Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:51 pm

On the comments for the youtube link that you provided there is a question about the sheet music and a response with pointer to it. You can download a PDF of a piano version from which you can come up with an accordion version. The left hand side of the arrangement is pretty basic (mostly Alberti basses and some chords). It should be easy to figure out the equivalent left hand basses to play.
xocd
Somerville, MA

User avatar
JeffJetton
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Contact:

Re: portal

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:30 pm

If I were you, I wouldn't try to learn it from someone's piano cover version. That's like trying to learn how to act a movie scene by watching a video of someone trying to act it, rather than just watching the bit from the movie in the first place. :D

I'd go right to the source and learn it from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI

(And yes, keep on using your ears to try to figure it out. You don't need sheet music for this. Resist the urge!)

(P.S. it gets easier to figure out later in the song when the full band kicks in. Listen for the bass...)

accordian
Star
Star
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

Re: portal

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:36 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:30 pm
If I were you, I wouldn't try to learn it from someone's piano cover version. That's like trying to learn how to act a movie scene by watching a video of someone trying to act it, rather than just watching the bit from the movie in the first place. :D

I'd go right to the source and learn it from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI

(And yes, keep on using your ears to try to figure it out. You don't need sheet music for this. Resist the urge!)

(P.S. it gets easier to figure out later in the song when the full band kicks in. Listen for the bass...)
what you said about the full band are
you suggesting copying them?

accordian
Star
Star
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

Re: portal

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:38 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:30 pm
If I were you, I wouldn't try to learn it from someone's piano cover version. That's like trying to learn how to act a movie scene by watching a video of someone trying to act it, rather than just watching the bit from the movie in the first place. :D

I'd go right to the source and learn it from here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ljFaKRTrI

(And yes, keep on using your ears to try to figure it out. You don't need sheet music for this. Resist the urge!)

(P.S. it gets easier to figure out later in the song when the full band kicks in. Listen for the bass...)
as for using my ears to be 100% im really rubbish at that and
my method is to try random buttons till it sounds right

User avatar
JeffJetton
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Contact:

Re: portal

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:45 pm

accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:36 pm
what you said about the full band are
you suggesting copying them?
I guess. I mean listen to the instruments to help you figure out what chords to play, etc.

Personally, I tend to try to listen for the lowest note being played since that's often the root of the chord that's going on at the same time. At the very least it helps you narrow down the possibilities. When there's a bass guitar, and it's loud, that's easier!

User avatar
JeffJetton
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Contact:

Re: portal

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:54 pm

accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:38 pm
as for using my ears to be 100% im really rubbish at that and
my method is to try random buttons till it sounds right
Of course you're rubbish at it. Everyone is at first. That's normal.

It's a skill, not an inherent talent. And like any skill you have go through a "rubbish" phase before you get to the "decent" phase. The more you do it, the better you'd get at it.

Until then, the random button trick is a perfectly acceptable one.

(A spot of musical theory helps too. For example, you might notice that this song switches between the keys of D major and F major. When it's in F, the melody uses notes from the F major scale, and the chords are chords that are common in the key of F. Same goes for when it's in the key of D. That narrows down the possibilities for what the next chord or note is, making those random guesses at the next chord or note a lot less random.)

accordian
Star
Star
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

Re: portal

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:07 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:54 pm
accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:38 pm
as for using my ears to be 100% im really rubbish at that and
my method is to try random buttons till it sounds right
Of course you're rubbish at it. Everyone is at first. That's normal.

It's a skill, not an inherent talent. And like any skill you have go through a "rubbish" phase before you get to the "decent" phase. The more you do it, the better you'd get at it.

Until then, the random button trick is a perfectly acceptable one.

(A spot of musical theory helps too. For example, you might notice that this song switches between the keys of D major and F major. When it's in F, the melody uses notes from the F major scale, and the chords are chords that are common in the key of F. Same goes for when it's in the key of D. That narrows down the possibilities for what the next chord or note is, making those random guesses at the next chord or note a lot less random.)
to be honest im a bit confused
about the key as first I hear the song
is d major or d minor or cminor etc.
but when I look online for songs in a key
I saw only the letter and it's flat eg. e,
e flat. is this just another key the same way
that there are different c chord eg. maj,
min,dim etc. bit confused

User avatar
JeffJetton
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Contact:

Re: portal

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:52 pm

It's actually kind of tricky to define "key", but one way of thinking of it is the collection of notes that is used to play the melody and form the chords of a song.

So when we say that the first part of "Still Alive" is in the "key of D major", we mean that the melody mostly (in this case, always) uses notes that are found in the D major scale. That collection of notes is D, E, F#, G, A, B, and C#. You will not hear the melody play a C natural, or an A flat, in the beginning of the song, since those notes are not in the D major scale and therefore not in the key of D major.

Furthermore, the chords that play under the melody are formed using those same notes. The D major chord? That's the notes D, F#, and A.

It would be unusual (but not unheard of) to have an E major chord in this song, since that chord is made up of these three notes: E, G#, and B. While the E and B notes are in the key of D major, that G# note is not. If an E major chord did show up, it would be a sign that we'd left the key of D major, even if only for moment.

But an E minor chord? That has a G natural instead of the G#, so that does "fit" the key of D major. You very well might find that chord in this song. Just sayin'...

Finally, the "key" sort of indicates the place where the song comes home to rest. The "tonal center" that everything sort of gravitates toward. But that's getting a little hippie-dippy, so we'll move on...

When "Still Alive" shifts to the key of F, suddenly it starts using notes from the "F major scale" collection: F, G, A, Bb, C, D, and E. Notice that the F and C are no longer sharp like they were when you were in the key of D major. And the B is not longer natural... it's flattened. The chords behave likewise and are chords that are made up of this new set of notes.

Now just because a song is written in, and/or originally performed in a certain key doesn't mean you can't play it in a different one. That's called transposing, and people do it to better fit their vocal range, or because certain keys are easier to play on their instrument than others, etc. You just play the same melody but starting on a different pitch and using a different collection of notes. The chords are adjusted too so they still fit the newly re-pitched melody. No biggie.

accordian
Star
Star
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

Re: portal

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:11 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:52 pm
It's actually kind of tricky to define "key", but one way of thinking of it is the collection of notes that is used to play the melody and form the chords of a song.

So when we say that the first part of "Still Alive" is in the "key of D major", we mean that the melody mostly (in this case, always) uses notes that are found in the D major scale. That collection of notes is D, E, F#, G, A, B, and C#. You will not hear the melody play a C natural, or an A flat, in the beginning of the song, since those notes are not in the D major scale and therefore not in the key of D major.

Furthermore, the chords that play under the melody are formed using those same notes. The D major chord? That's the notes D, F#, and A.

It would be unusual (but not unheard of) to have an E major chord in this song, since that chord is made up of these three notes: E, G#, and B. While the E and B notes are in the key of D major, that G# note is not. If an E major chord did show up, it would be a sign that we'd left the key of D major, even if only for moment.

But an E minor chord? That has a G natural instead of the G#, so that does "fit" the key of D major. You very well might find that chord in this song. Just sayin'...

Finally, the "key" sort of indicates the place where the song comes home to rest. The "tonal center" that everything sort of gravitates toward. But that's getting a little hippie-dippy, so we'll move on...

When "Still Alive" shifts to the key of F, suddenly it starts using notes from the "F major scale" collection: F, G, A, Bb, C, D, and E. Notice that the F and C are no longer sharp like they were when you were in the key of D major. And the B is not longer natural... it's flattened. The chords behave likewise and are chords that are made up of this new set of notes.

Now just because a song is written in, and/or originally performed in a certain key doesn't mean you can't play it in a different one. That's called transposing, and people do it to better fit their vocal range, or because certain keys are easier to play on their instrument than others, etc. You just play the same melody but starting on a different pitch and using a different collection of notes. The chords are adjusted too so they still fit the newly re-pitched melody. No biggie.
ah I see
just so ya kno
what I said was
I was talking in
general.

as for transposing
I understand that
part and I think I
understand that the
tonal center is where
you end up at like an
elastic band whichever
way you pull it you end up
back where you started or
even in terms of a number
line with 0 being the center
negative numbers being deeper
or lower notes and positive higher
and again 0 being the center and
"resting point" as nothing has happened


as for the keys such as eb, cb etc.
when looking for songs in the key
of .... it often only shows me the flats
and natural keys rather than chords
are the flat and natural keys like this
a synonym of say c=c maj cb=cmin

thanks

User avatar
JeffJetton
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Contact:

Re: portal

Post by JeffJetton » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:59 pm

accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:11 pm
I think I
understand that the
tonal center is where
you end up at like an
elastic band whichever
way you pull it you end up
back where you started or
even in terms of a number
line with 0 being the center
negative numbers being deeper
or lower notes and positive higher
and again 0 being the center and
"resting point" as nothing has happened
That's a good way of looking at it.

And certain chords pull the elastic further out than others in a given key. For example, in the key of C major, playing an F major chord (the "downstairs" chord, as I call it) pulls it out a little bit... it sort of wants to snap back, but it's not in a hurry. You could go to a different chord and it wouldn't really bother anyone.

A G chord (the "upstairs" chord) pulls the elastic out a good bit more. The ear starts to want to hear it "snap back" to C. If you make the chord a G7, that pulls it even farther out, and now the ear really wants to hear everything resolve downstairs to C. (Try stopping the song on that G7 chord and see how uncomfortable it is!)

I'm afraid I still don't really get your question about keys and chords. :-(

accordian
Star
Star
Posts: 415
Joined: Sun Jul 23, 2017 11:22 am

Re: portal

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:03 am

JeffJetton wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:59 pm
accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:11 pm
I think I
understand that the
tonal center is where
you end up at like an
elastic band whichever
way you pull it you end up
back where you started or
even in terms of a number
line with 0 being the center
negative numbers being deeper
or lower notes and positive higher
and again 0 being the center and
"resting point" as nothing has happened
That's a good way of looking at it.

And certain chords pull the elastic further out than others in a given key. For example, in the key of C major, playing an F major chord (the "downstairs" chord, as I call it) pulls it out a little bit... it sort of wants to snap back, but it's not in a hurry. You could go to a different chord and it wouldn't really bother anyone.

A G chord (the "upstairs" chord) pulls the elastic out a good bit more. The ear starts to want to hear it "snap back" to C. If you make the chord a G7, that pulls it even farther out, and now the ear really wants to hear everything resolve downstairs to C. (Try stopping the song on that G7 chord and see how uncomfortable it is!)

I'm afraid I still don't really get your question about keys and chords. :-(
well what i'm failing to understand is when I use say this
website https://www.hooktheory.com/trends it doesn't
say c major or d minor or any keys like this but rather c
c flat , d dflat etc. which im asking how comes they don't put
the c major, minor etc. key as well as c , cflat. is it just because
this websites a pain and doesn't offer it or does say d minor = d flat

thanks

User avatar
JeffJetton
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Contact:

Re: portal

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:36 pm

accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:03 am
is it just because this websites a pain and doesn't offer it
Seems that way to me. A bit of a confusing website, but it does look like their little floaty circle thingy is designed only for major key chord progressions.

No, D flat is not the same as D minor, whether you're talking about chords or keys.

Although it is true that the only difference between, say, a C major chord and C minor chord is that one of the notes in the minor chord is flat compared to the major chord.

And the only difference between the key of C major and the key of C minor (specifically, C natural minor) is that three of the notes in the minor key are flat compared to the major key.

But if you flatten the letter that the whole thing is named after (the "C" in this case) then you're not changing anything from major to minor. You're just shifting the whole thing (every note in the chord or key) down a half-step.

User avatar
JeffJetton
Superstar
Superstar
Posts: 517
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2016 9:28 pm
Location: Nashville, Tennessee, USA
Contact:

Re: portal

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:39 pm

BTW, although I have heard "Still Alive" before and have know about the game Portal since it came out ages ago, I have never actually played it... until last weekend.

I was inspired by this thread and finally gave it a try. Wow, it really is as good as its reputation! I can see why it won so many awards when it came out. :tup:

I bought Portal 2 also, but haven't tackled it yet. I'm going back through the original to try to pick up some achievements.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests