left hand accuracy

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left hand accuracy

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:18 am

ok doke so I have been practicing
for a while and noticed that I make
some common mistakes the biggest
being my left hand accuracy when bass jumping
and I know practice makes perfect but my question
is say I go from dm to bb and back sometimes I
miss by one button and when I look at it I think the
cause of this is to do with my hand's movement sometimes
I rotate on the spot and sometimes it moves a little in an
arch.

how would I go about correcting this when it's such a small difference?

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by jozz » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:12 pm

I don't know

iif you neglected playing posture or bellows direction changes are done randomly instead of always at the same spots, that can be a cause of problems as your left hand is not always in the same position before each jump.

makes practice less effective

so always create the exact same position before each jump, then practice more

with experience you'll end up making any jump from any position

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by JeffJetton » Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:53 pm

If you're having trouble consistently going from Dm to Bb, then I'd stop playing songs that required you to go from Dm to Bb. Or any song where you leap over (that is, skip) three rows.

Instead, work on songs where you only go from Gm to Bb, or Dm to F, or any similar leaps that skip two rows. Can you nail those jumps most of the time?

If not, then quit working on those songs and start working on one-row leaps. You get the idea.

Now if you are pretty solid on jumping over two rows, then the problems with your three-row jumps just comes down to practice.

It is good to think about--as you're doing--the physical movement, and to try to "debug" that thoughtfully rather than just plowing ahead with the motion mindlessly hoping it will work. So nice job there.

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:47 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 4:53 pm
If you're having trouble consistently going from Dm to Bb, then I'd stop playing songs that required you to go from Dm to Bb. Or any song where you leap over (that is, skip) three rows.

Instead, work on songs where you only go from Gm to Bb, or Dm to F, or any similar leaps that skip two rows. Can you nail those jumps most of the time?

If not, then quit working on those songs and start working on one-row leaps. You get the idea.

Now if you are pretty solid on jumping over two rows, then the problems with your three-row jumps just comes down to practice.

It is good to think about--as you're doing--the physical movement, and to try to "debug" that thoughtfully rather than just plowing ahead with the motion mindlessly hoping it will work. So nice job there.
to be 100% honest I don't know any songs that do 2 row jumps
can you please suggest some to me as I litterally know 1 song
and thats it the rest not so much.

thanks

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by accordian » Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:50 pm

jozz wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:12 pm
I don't know

iif you neglected playing posture or bellows direction changes are done randomly instead of always at the same spots, that can be a cause of problems as your left hand is not always in the same position before each jump.

makes practice less effective

so always create the exact same position before each jump, then practice more

with experience you'll end up making any jump from any position
well when I change directions I find that I will change direction based on what
im doing as it can feel weird to jump up when closing so I change direction.
any idea of how to make it easier or feel more natural. when doing this I sorta stop
closing the bellows for a second do the jump then go this is if I try to do it this way
usually I will just change direction as to whatever feels more natural at the time.

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by jozz » Fri Jun 15, 2018 8:21 pm

well every song or piece of music has it's own 'natural' moments where the changes should come, and they should never come during a jump...changes should come in between the notes or phrases; this is also dependant on how much air your accordion uses, so if it uses a lot of air, it's more difficult as you have less opportunities to change direction

that's the first thing to note and make sure you plan ahead, it might turn out you can plan those up-jumps always on the pull

then the matter of jumping up while closing is really a technique thing, so that takes practice

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by JeffJetton » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:20 pm

accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:47 pm
to be 100% honest I don't know any songs that do 2 row jumps
can you please suggest some to me
From Palmer-Hughes Book 2:
  • Merry Widow Waltz (F to Dm)
  • Arabian Enchantment (F to Dm; Gm to Bb; Also has a sweet four-row jump from Bb to A7!)
From Palmer-Hughes Book 3:
  • Song of the Volga Boatmen (Am to C7; F to Dm)
  • Zacatecas (F to D7; Gm to Bb)
  • Emperor Waltz (Dm to F)
  • Fascination (Dm to Fdim)
  • Santa Lucia (C to A7)
Plus any song with a 1-6-2-5 progression (in any combination of majors/minors/7th), since the 1 to 6 part always jumps over two rows. There are, like, a bajillion of these, such as:
  • Alice's Restaurant
  • Duke of Earl
  • Hello, Ma Baby!
  • Blue Moon
  • Every Breath You Take
  • Don't Dream it's Over
  • Stand by Me
  • Heck, there's a whole Wiki page of 'em!

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by JeffJetton » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:23 pm

(By the way, this is why I recommend that you start learning from method books such as Palmer-Hughes. Notice how the two-row jumps don't even start until book two, and even then just on a couple of songs? Then, by book three, they give you more of them? You don't go diving right in with the hard stuff... you establish solid basic techniques, then gradually build on them with new concepts/challenges.)

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by george garside » Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:21 am

just a thought. are you getting your hand/arm sufficiently through the bass strap to allow for the articulation of the wrist.
A good starting position is to have the bass strap about where a watch strap would be if you were wearing a watch. The best position will vary a bit from this according to the size of the hand but most of the articulation is done with the wrist rather than moving the arm . The tightness or otherwise of the bass strap can also matter!

otherwise as others have said its down to practice


george

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by debra » Tue Jun 19, 2018 11:55 am

accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:47 pm
...
to be 100% honest I don't know any songs that do 2 row jumps
can you please suggest some to me as I litterally know 1 song
and thats it the rest not so much.
...
In ALL normal harmony songs there are many occurrences of the standard 1-4-5 sequence,
meaning for instance that in the key of C you will have C major followed by F major followed by G major (or seventh) followed by C major again. This appears in almost every song.
The next very common sequence is 1-4-5-6-4-5-1, or C F G Am F G C. The jump from Am to F is one row more.
When you play any piece of music that follows normal standard chord sequences you will encounter these.
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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by StargazerTony » Tue Jun 19, 2018 2:50 pm

I play an unpublished piece by Tony Lovello that has several Abm to Gm jumps. Those were rather nasty. Took me almost a year to do them consistently
Cordially, Tony
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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by jozz » Tue Jun 19, 2018 5:59 pm

yes you are not alone

I have one piece with E7 - F - E7

I often omit some of the chord basses in between because I just can't be bothered

the more common 3-jumps I hit 95%, the thing is once I do a period of stuff that doesn't have jumps my technique gets stale

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by accordian » Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:36 pm

george garside wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 10:21 am
just a thought. are you getting your hand/arm sufficiently through the bass strap to allow for the articulation of the wrist.
A good starting position is to have the bass strap about where a watch strap would be if you were wearing a watch. The best position will vary a bit from this according to the size of the hand but most of the articulation is done with the wrist rather than moving the arm . The tightness or otherwise of the bass strap can also matter!

otherwise as others have said its down to practice


george
dont have my accordion at the moment so
cant say for certain but I think I have it on the back of my
wrist sort of an area (I will check later).

if its where a watch would be wouldn't it make it harder
to hit some of the chords further back?

thanks for the tip

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by wirralaccordion » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:28 pm

For practicing big jumps use songs where the jump is to a dimpled key, i.e. A flat major, E major or C major.

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by george garside » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:43 pm

and use slow tunes for so doing!

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by accordian » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:49 pm

JeffJetton wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:20 pm
accordian wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 7:47 pm
to be 100% honest I don't know any songs that do 2 row jumps
can you please suggest some to me
From Palmer-Hughes Book 2:
  • Merry Widow Waltz (F to Dm)
  • Arabian Enchantment (F to Dm; Gm to Bb; Also has a sweet four-row jump from Bb to A7!)
From Palmer-Hughes Book 3:
  • Song of the Volga Boatmen (Am to C7; F to Dm)
  • Zacatecas (F to D7; Gm to Bb)
  • Emperor Waltz (Dm to F)
  • Fascination (Dm to Fdim)
  • Santa Lucia (C to A7)
Plus any song with a 1-6-2-5 progression (in any combination of majors/minors/7th), since the 1 to 6 part always jumps over two rows. There are, like, a bajillion of these, such as:
  • Alice's Restaurant
  • Duke of Earl
  • Hello, Ma Baby!
  • Blue Moon
  • Every Breath You Take
  • Don't Dream it's Over
  • Stand by Me
  • Heck, there's a whole Wiki page of 'em!
hello I've been looking at
the ones stated in the book
and to be honest havent practiced
it due to how it sounds so Ive looked
at other songs that youve stated such
as blue moon, ever breath etc.

and they are a great. as for getting
a 2 row jump im not finding it to
difficult at the moment (too be honest
just started maybe about half an hour ago)
but the I suppose being able to do it for half
an hour is one thing compared to actually putting
it in muscle memory rather than starting from scratch
everytime.

anyway the reason I came back; I heard about making up short tunes
for practising such jumps dont suppose you know the terminology
of this?

thanks

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by debra » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:02 am

accordian wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:36 pm
...
dont have my accordion at the moment so
cant say for certain but I think I have it on the back of my
wrist sort of an area (I will check later).

if its where a watch would be wouldn't it make it harder
to hit some of the chords further back?

thanks for the tip
The exact placement of your hand/wrist is a matter of finding what feels most comfortable/natural to you.
The bass strap should be loose enough to give you enough freedom of movement and tight enough so your hand/wrist cannot be flapping between back plate and strap when changing bellows direction. Depending on the construction of the bass strap, back plate and feet it can be easy or hard to reach the buttons at the top of the bottom (in playing orientation). Some accordions have what I call a "bridge" between the feet to increase the distance between strap and plate near the ends so you can more easily reach the buttons there.

The suggestion of "where a watch would be" is rather ambiguous because different people wear there watch closer to the wrist or a bit further up the arm as they see fit, and also, accordion players wear their watch on their right arm (if wearing one at all).
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by accordian » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:41 am

debra wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:02 am
accordian wrote:
Tue Jun 19, 2018 8:36 pm
...
dont have my accordion at the moment so
cant say for certain but I think I have it on the back of my
wrist sort of an area (I will check later).

if its where a watch would be wouldn't it make it harder
to hit some of the chords further back?

thanks for the tip
The exact placement of your hand/wrist is a matter of finding what feels most comfortable/natural to you.
The bass strap should be loose enough to give you enough freedom of movement and tight enough so your hand/wrist cannot be flapping between back plate and strap when changing bellows direction. Depending on the construction of the bass strap, back plate and feet it can be easy or hard to reach the buttons at the top of the bottom (in playing orientation). Some accordions have what I call a "bridge" between the feet to increase the distance between strap and plate near the ends so you can more easily reach the buttons there.

The suggestion of "where a watch would be" is rather ambiguous because different people wear there watch closer to the wrist or a bit further up the arm as they see fit, and also, accordion players wear their watch on their right arm (if wearing one at all).
would you describe most of the left hand as
reaching?

as for checking turns out it's in the right place

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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by debra » Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:50 pm

accordian wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:41 am

would you describe most of the left hand as
reaching?

as for checking turns out it's in the right place
Not sure what you mean with "reaching"...
If you mean whether the left hand can reach all the buttons then the answer is definitely yes. If you cannot reach some buttons at the top or bottom then something is wrong about the bass strap.
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Re: left hand accuracy

Post by accordian » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:17 pm

debra wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 12:50 pm
accordian wrote:
Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:41 am

would you describe most of the left hand as
reaching?

as for checking turns out it's in the right place
Not sure what you mean with "reaching"...
If you mean whether the left hand can reach all the buttons then the answer is definitely yes. If you cannot reach some buttons at the top or bottom then something is wrong about the bass strap.
well my technhique with left hand used to be like
an arrow pointing to a number scale; straight
and just sliding my arm up and down.

now im trying to stay in one position and reach
for the different notes , chords etc.

(just looking for some small tips to left hand)

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