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Irish trad on CBA

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Stephen
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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by Stephen » Wed Jun 24, 2015 11:11 am

Tom, reels travelled from Scotland to Ireland and back, there has always been influence , and the names of reels, jigs and tunes have changed so often.
There is no isolated Irisch trad music culture, as there is no isolated Scottish trad music.
Tunes changed continent with sailors, nowadays with airplane passangers…

“One of the features of traditional music is its capacity for absorption, retention and change. Traditional music has always drawn on many influences and sources: for example, the ballroom schottisches and polkas of polite 19th-century society, English music-hall songs, Scottish bagpipe music, and even the music of visiting blackface minstrel troupes. The trend continues to the present day - there is a current fashion for making traditional dance tunes from such commonplace material as the theme tune from "Dallas". The traditional group De Danann have made a hornpipe from the Beatles' song 'Hey Jude'. Whether or not these tunes survive in the future will be determined by the community, in this case the other traditional musicians and their audience.”

“In this context, 'Irish' means absorbing other influences and making them feel at home.”
http://www.irelandseye.com/aarticles/cu ... al/tm.shtm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


“Irish music is Scottish music with its corsets off.”
A quote from TheSession forum “Similarities and differences in Irish and Scottish Traditional music.”
https://thesession.org/discussions/33128" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Here are some more CBA players with trad tunes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=78d7byy5s68" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Moving Cloud / Maids of Mt. Cisco

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XL88Y1BKc8s" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Paddy Faheys Reel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5wvKlQNCZmo" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Willie Colemans

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvwb9QvQz1Y" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The Kerry Jig

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xB2mtoJ__DQ" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
The queen of the fair


I bet this accordionist, now living in the USA, could play Irish reels so fast and idiomatic, if asked…
Enjoy this chromatic button accordion:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gP8wNFLnSkk" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Alexander Sevastian playing "Spanish Capriccio" by Moritz Moszkowski


wise words:
“In short, to say that the true "traditional" music of Ireland died with the harpists is to fail to recognise the parallel tradition of dance music played by the ordinary public on instruments which have been evolving in an unbroken development history to today's instruments.”
http://www.standingstones.com/cmaoitm.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Any music instrument can be idiomatic in a folk music genre or style, as long as it is played by talented players.
It depends on the talents of the players, not the CBA layout.

You say:
“Instrumental tradition is against it, of course, in the sense that the conventional boxes for Irish are first and foremost half-step diatonics, generally in B/C or C#/D, plus a fair few PAs. It might only happen on CBA where an established player from another genre becomes interested in Irish trad.”

By the way, the diatonic B/C or C#/D or G/C or … bisonoric accordions all have their origins in central Europe, from Austria, Germany, in the 1820s-1840s.
Isn’t it ironic they all play on, originally, Austrian and German music instruments, and call this ITM, Irish traditional music.

The same with the concertina, the 30 button anglo(-chromatic) concertina, this is a German music instrument, the basics of this system were made in Germany by Carl Friedrich Uhlig in 1834.

The only concertina that has it’s origins in England, is the C. Wheatstone alternating layout “English concertina”.

Even the harp, the symbol of ITM, has it’s origins in another country
“The earliest harps and lyres were found in Sumer, 3500 BC”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harp#Near_East" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

TomBR
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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by TomBR » Wed Jun 24, 2015 12:54 pm

Thanks Stephen, I said in my opening post "I have no doubt it could be done, beautifully, I just haven't come across a clip of anyone doing it!"
so nice to see those videos.

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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by Leighton » Wed Jul 08, 2015 10:50 pm

I've enjoyed the discussion here and the videos.
To throw another monkey wrench into this, I noticed that all the CBA videos they were playing C-griff CBAs.

I'm wondering if this is a cultural/availability choice or is it because it's the runs are more ergonomic on a C?

On the topic of new instruments within a tradition I have first-hand experience of playing saxophone in Klezmer. The sound of that music is so centered on the clarinet''s sound that the sax simply sounds blatantly 'untraditional'. But I still pursue the style because I enjoy playing it soo much.
I'm a believer in 'living tradition' where everything is in flux and alive. New vibrant traditional music will alway augment the style it is reproducing so why not go with it? Hardcore authentic traditional music, whatever that is, is interesting but usually sounds like it belongs in a museum and ultimately bores me.

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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by TomBR » Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:37 am

Heading for two years since this discussion. Stephen linked to some nice examples (above) by Youtuber "Craptiger" who has gone on improving - his latest clip is a really nice piece of work, the kind of thing I was hoping for at the start of the discussion.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8Z7AP5xrHY

george garside
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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by george garside » Fri Mar 31, 2017 12:25 pm

interesting that he plays entirely on the outside 3 rows and doesn't use the bass. perhaps he comes from a BC melodeon background where the bass are rarely used by many players of itm

george

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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by JerryPH » Fri Mar 31, 2017 1:13 pm

george garside wrote:interesting that he plays entirely on the outside 3 rows and doesn't use the bass.
He does use the bass, after the first 30 seconds of the video and at the 1:40 mar you can see him using the 4th and 5th rows of the treble side. :)
My musical memoires blog/website: http://www.AccordionMemories.com

Stephen
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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by Stephen » Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:35 pm

Like the Craptiger YT videos with trad music on the CBA.

I watched some of his video on triplets in trad music on CBA.
For fast triplets on the same button, my accordion teachers preferred the fingering :
432 343 234 323 etc
Got it? Start with ring finger, 4, and then middle finger, 3, and then index, 2.
The idea is to start practising very slow, and gradually after weeks, increase speed.
The thumb use is harder in triplets, but is a good exercise. Different fingering options for triplets exist.

In my preferred option, it also helps to move the hand, so the middle finger stays above the button. Minimal rotations of the right hand is also a small trick.

Smooth and ongoing uninterrupted triplets require lots of practice.
Sorry for my Dinglish, I hope it's a trick someone can use on CBA.

george garside
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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by george garside » Fri Mar 31, 2017 5:41 pm

the fastes way to play staccato triplets is to use 234 fingers held tightly together and draw them over a button or key. Because the fingers are different lengths thy act like a segment of a cog wheel and press and release the button or key 3 times very rapidly

george

Stephen
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Re: Irish trad on CBA

Post by Stephen » Sat Apr 01, 2017 4:21 pm

I agree, the 234 fingers, index, middle and ring finger have about same length. Played tight together they are excellent for playing staccato fast triplets on the same button or note.

In a playfull mood one can even try this with thumb 123 or even 345 with pinky. Just as merry acrobatic fun exercises.
Some play fast triplets with 4 fingers, 2345, but this is very hard and far from ideal or easy in my humble opinion.

Sometimes however one can conquer difficult passages by adding an extra handicap. I mean deliberately opting for the wrong fingering.
Like some clownesque playing techniques.

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