Hidden Spindle?

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Mr Mark
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Hidden Spindle?

Post by Mr Mark » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:41 pm

My new/used Lignatone (Delicia I believe) sounds great except for the obnoxious squeaks coming from under the keyboard.

It sounds like either the springs are corroded or their ends are moving on the wood (scratching) - or some other thing is happening that I don't know - but it is on pretty much every key.

So far I am finding Teflon lubrication is working to remedy things but at some point I realize I am going to want to adjust the action of the keys and may or may not have to replace the springs.

However, there are no spindle caps and there are no 'springs' holding the keys on. Is there another way that keys are affixed or is the spindle rod hidden (requiring drilling a hole in the end of the body)?
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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Soulsaver » Tue Sep 26, 2017 12:10 pm

See if anyone with experience of this model comes along, but failing that, from http://accordionrevival.com/ACCORDION_R ... cking_keys:

"If there is no cover on the bottom of the keyboard and no access to the bottom ends of your spindles, then the keys are individually removable. Individually removable keys have slots that engage a spindle that can only be removed after all the keys are out.

        There are five basic types. The most common type uses a short, stiff retainer spring to hold the spindle in the horizontal leg of an L-shaped slot in the bottom of the key, or more accurately, an L-shaped slot in the brass hinge assembly riveted to the bottom of the key. You cannot see this spring or the slot until you get the key out.

         You remove these keys by pressing down hard and toward the valve end of the rod in order to get the spindle out of the horizontal leg of the L-shaped slot (by overcoming the force of the retainer spring) and into the vertical leg, then pulling up on the key to lift it off the spindle. Press on the key right where it rotates on the spindle, pushing down and horizontally, then lift vertically by gripping the key rod as close as possible to the key. In this explanation, horizontal means parallel to the key top."

It covers alternate closed spindle fixing methods following on.
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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Soulsaver » Tue Sep 26, 2017 5:19 pm

Garth (artelago) kindly provided a pic of a type of key fixing a with closed spindle...

..which, if correct, may help visualise the modus of extraction, albeit maybe not in this instance as described above, but you get the gist:
non spindle key S73F0790.JPG
Music Game full rules are on the original (first) post in its thread...viewtopic.php?f=12&t=444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Mr Mark » Fri Sep 29, 2017 12:15 am

Thanks Soulsaver, I feel a bit of schmo for not having seen that in the Revival website myself.

The picture seems to be the most enlightening however I cannot get any of the keys to budge. I am able to see under the keys somewhat from the key ends themselves and it does appear to be some sort of brass connection affixed to keys and indeed, a spindle but no matter how hard I press, push or pull no give. Any harder and I am sure to break something.

I do see some sort of double pronged thing when looking at the ends underneath but no amount of prodding is moving things, so I suppose I will have to be content to wait and hope someone has a similar model. Even the reputable and recommended repair tech in town was stumped on how to get at things without serious time and dollars invested.

Most of the squeaks have left via teflon lube but there are still four are five stubborn ones that are pretty terrible.

Pictures from the end of the keys looking in.
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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Soulsaver » Sat Sep 30, 2017 3:36 pm

understandable..., the subject is a bit buried in sticky keys, but I'd remembered seeing it before...

This is a bit more risk: Have you tried removing a return spring. Some of the vintage designs involved removing the springs (with a tool that sometimes came supplied under the grill) before you could unhook the key?
Music Game full rules are on the original (first) post in its thread...viewtopic.php?f=12&t=444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Mr Mark » Mon Oct 02, 2017 7:05 am

There is no return spring that I can see, unlike the one I can see in the picture you posted. The only spring I see is your typical keyboard spring underneath the keys. I did look for a special tool underneath the grill and in the entire area in general and no luck. There doesn't appear to have been one either, there is no area one might have been attached. When I am zooming into the pictures I last posted it looks like there are two tines per key that may be spring loaded and attached to a spindle. It does look like there is a spindle. The tines appear to point forward. I am going to see if I can get better pictures to see better the mechanism and perhaps fabricate something to push those tines down from the other end, and theoretically slide the keys backward and off.

Really hope I don't break something, but wow a couple of the squeaks are pretty bad.

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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Soulsaver » Wed Oct 11, 2017 12:18 pm

The return spring IS the typical key spring. Can you describe what we're looking at in the pics? In the 2nd pic in the middle, where the light is, the spring appears to be a hook?
Music Game full rules are on the original (first) post in its thread...viewtopic.php?f=12&t=444" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chinese Accordion Manufacturers - list post #1 here viewtopic.php?f=25&t=1584" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Mr Mark » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:33 am

OK - My terminology is wrong then. These keys have the typical return spring on the underside of the key, as far as I can tell. What I don't see is a spring at the front of the key rod at the elbow so to speak, as shown in the picture you posted and similar to what I have seen searching on the internet. But I also notice the key in your picture does not have the typical return spring either found on what I'm guessing to be most keyboards with a spindle.

The pictures I posted are looking in from the end of the keys/key tops. I am able to lift the keys just enough to partly see underneath - so you are looking towards the ... spindle maybe ... what is being shown is the return spring and an optical illusion indicating a hook, but in actual fact are two different parts, the spring and what looks like a bracket attached to the underside of the keys.

I've marked up that picture again for better reference. I think it has to do with the tines but I haven't got to it yet as I've spent a great deal of time installing a pickup system...yikes that was fun fabricating brackets and such out of sheet metal...

I hope this makes sense.
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Re: Hidden Spindle?

Post by Mr Mark » Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:43 am

Two more pictures better showing the up stands I think the spindle passes through, as well as the brackets on the keys themselves and corresponding tines.
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