Bass note sticking

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Mike K
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Mike K » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:55 pm

Still holding up. Sometimes I think I hear it sticking but it may just be my imagination. If it does, it is going away real quickly. Think it is just my mind screwing with me. I actually have all three of my accordions working properly now.....First time since I have owned three. Hope it stays that way a long time.
Mike Klemen
Richmond, VA USA

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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Geronimo » Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:29 pm

Mike K wrote:
Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:55 pm
Still holding up. Sometimes I think I hear it sticking but it may just be my imagination. If it does, it is going away real quickly. Think it is just my mind screwing with me. I actually have all three of my accordions working properly now.....First time since I have owned three. Hope it stays that way a long time.
Owning three accordions is about as unlikely to stay that way a long time as owning three rabbits is. I don't know of a way to spay an accordion, actually.

Mike K
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Mike K » Fri Feb 16, 2018 6:37 pm

Starting to stick occasionally again for short time intervals. Guess I need to take apart and do a more thorough cleaning and lubricating. Going to try to use alcohol to clean some white stuff that is on those horizontal rods. Not sure if that is the problem but got to give it a try.
Mike Klemen
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Mike K » Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:06 am

The Saga Continues....................
The note started sticking again. I toke the plate off the back, cleaned and lubricated, put it back together and things were much worse. Sticking all the time. At least it was consistent now....sometimes easier for trouble shooting.

I laid it on its back....shoulder straps down, took off the plate and tried it.....nothing appeared to be sticking. I then stood it upright like when I was playing and the note was sticking.......made some progress. Turned it upside down, high notes on top, low notes down and it did not stick.
IMG_20180216_193925.jpg
The rod to the far left was the one that was sticking. I have a piece of paper towel around it attempting to clean it.

I noticed when I raised that rod a little, it no longer stuck.
IMG_20180216_194725.jpg
Sticking out of the rod are "spikes" that move the little yellow rollers. I could feel a "drag" on the rod as I pushed the chord in. One or more of those spikes were rubbing against the brass colored plates. I bent a couple of the spikes a little....too much and you will miss those yellow rollers....and it appeared to remove the drag

I reassembled it and it is playing fine. I think I FOUND the problem this time. Last time I think I just got lucky and somehow when I put it together that rod got raised a little but it did not stay that way. Gravity let it drop back down and the spike started rubbing.

Not sure if all accordions are built this way....this is the first left hand I have had apart....but something to look at if you are having a similar issue.

Mike
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Geronimo » Sat Feb 17, 2018 8:49 am

Mike K wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 2:06 am
Sticking out of the rod are "spikes" that move the little yellow rollers.
It's more like the "little yellow rollers" (which are just some PVC like wire insulation stuck on a piece of metal and don't roll) move the "spikes".
I could feel a "drag" on the rod as I pushed the chord in. One or more of those spikes were rubbing against the brass colored plates. I bent a couple of the spikes a little....too much and you will miss those yellow rollers....and it appeared to remove the drag

I reassembled it and it is playing fine. I think I FOUND the problem this time. Last time I think I just got lucky and somehow when I put it together that rod got raised a little but it did not stay that way. Gravity let it drop back down and the spike started rubbing.
Here is the problem to watch out for: if the "rod" has leeway, it can use it in either direction. The one you were having problems with added drag. The opposite one poses the danger that some "little yellow rollers" will travel right past their "spike" when playing in a percussive style. The result then being that a bass button does not return home and all notes of the chord except the bad one where this happened will keep sounding. It may be more than one bad note of the chord where this happens. When it happens with all notes of all chords, you get the famous "bass buttons fallen in" syndrome that happens to some accordions during transportation.

So you want to be moving the spikes just as far as necessary to avoid problems and it might make sense to check whether the leeway of your "rod" is adjustable or symptom of a problem of its own.

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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Mike K » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:22 pm

As I was pushing on the "spikes", it was the spikes moving the rollers. Seems like the buttons move the rod which the spikes are attached to, so to me it appears the spikes move the rollers but I am just learning. I agree you have to be careful how far you move them or you can make the spike miss the roller or roller miss the spike which ever way it goes.

Also learned to trouble shoot the accordion in the position that you play it. If I had done that, I think I would have found the problem much sooner. laying it on its back, gravity played a different role and the problem was not there.

I guess, my discovery of the problem you mentioned would be the button falling in? Is the solution then to reposition the spike on the other side of the roller? Problem is, there are lots of rollers and spikes attached to each shaft/rod.

What causes the shaft/rod to return to its original position? I assume there is some type of spring but I cannot see it.
Mike Klemen
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Geronimo » Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:59 pm

Mike K wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 5:22 pm
As I was pushing on the "spikes", it was the spikes moving the rollers. Seems like the buttons move the rod which the spikes are attached to, so to me it appears the spikes move the rollers but I am just learning.
I was trying to adapt to your terminology but now I am quite less sure we are talking about the same thing.
What causes the shaft/rod to return to its original position? I assume there is some type of spring but I cannot see it.
The springs are on the pallets (more exactly: on the axes they turn about) opening and closing the air path to the reed blocks inside of the bellows. Since those pallets are attached to the entire mechanism, those pallet springs are all that is actually pushing the buttons out. That's the reason why pushing certain combinations of buttons lets other buttons fall in of their own volition.

JIM D.
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by JIM D. » Sat Feb 17, 2018 6:02 pm

Again Mike:
Have you given this a complete read ?
http://www.accordionrevival.com/ACCORDI ... ss_machine
You have a pipe that is jamming and some disassembly will be required.
Owner & Operator "THE FISARMONICA SHOP" Chicopee, MA USA

Mike K
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Mike K » Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:23 pm

I think the pipe was jamming because one of the levers was rubbing against the brass plate. Bending it just slightly, eliminated this drag. Time will tell if this is a permanent fix. I cannot see many of the things mentioned in the accordion revival. Just too crowded to see the valves. The fact that this is a full free bass machine may contribute to that, little more of everything inside. As for taking the bass mechanism apart, that is beyond my comfort level. I am afraid I would never get it back together. The terms he uses in the article may be clear to you but to someone who does not know how to take it apart, it is going to be experiment. Need a YouTube video....which I have used for rebuilds of mechanical equipment. Not sure how different every accordion is.

If I had to do it I would experiment on the little student model I have. I took the right hand keyboard apart. Little tricky on the ends but pretty easy after that. Again, not sure my Giulietti is put together the same way. Right hand is a lot simpler than the left hand.

Hopefully it is fixed for a few more decades.
Mike Klemen
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Re: Bass note sticking

Post by Geronimo » Sun Feb 18, 2018 9:03 am

Mike K wrote:
Sat Feb 17, 2018 10:23 pm
I think the pipe was jamming because one of the levers was rubbing against the brass plate. Bending it just slightly, eliminated this drag. Time will tell if this is a permanent fix. I cannot see many of the things mentioned in the accordion revival. Just too crowded to see the valves.
Uh, you can't see the valves from outside the bellows. They are inside of the bellows. Are you talking about the pallets?
The fact that this is a full free bass machine may contribute to that, little more of everything inside.
Free bass essentially adds one layer of mechanism below the standard bass (converter is more compact and trickier). Here is an instrument with another layer above the standard bass:
00003.jpg
Imagine the fun servicing that. Still, one gets to see at least the bass pallets (the chord pallets are indeed hidden away in a deeper layer). This instrument makes it easy to convince the technician to service it in playing orientation: put it on its back, and the pallet springs don't even manage to push the bass buttons out again (except when engaging a mechanism that can couple up to 11 rather than the usual 3 pallets to chord buttons: I do that for transport).
As for taking the bass mechanism apart, that is beyond my comfort level.
That's something only to do in an emergency, and keeping very solid order (basically all bass levers are different). So you want a very clear table top and no cat in the house.
I am afraid I would never get it back together. The terms he uses in the article may be clear to you but to someone who does not know how to take it apart, it is going to be experiment. Need a YouTube video....which I have used for rebuilds of mechanical equipment. Not sure how different every accordion is.
Enough that you want to take pictures/video of yourself taking it apart, not some third-party recording.

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