Non-Animal based materials for accordions

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jozz
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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by jozz » Fri May 04, 2018 9:05 am

:mrgreen:

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Sebastian Bravo
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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Sebastian Bravo » Mon May 07, 2018 8:06 am

Stephen Hawkins wrote:
Wed May 02, 2018 11:57 pm
However, I'm sure that Steve will provide me with some useful information about substitute materials for instrument repairs and servicing.

Kind Regards

Stephen.
I am so thankful for this!
I'm Sebastian and i Play on a Hohner Concerto III called Modesto.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Mon May 07, 2018 8:22 am

Hi Sebastian,

Please do not mention it ...... I am happy to help if I am able to.

With a bit of luck, Steve will show up at our Folk Club tomorrow evening. If he is able to provide some relevant information, I will pass it on as soon as I can.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Wed May 09, 2018 1:05 am

Hi Sebastian,

Steve did not show up again this evening, and a mutual friend told me that he had a few bookings.

I have sent him a message to contact me, so should hear something soon.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Sebastian Bravo » Fri May 11, 2018 7:10 am

Stephen Hawkins wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:05 am
Hi Sebastian,

Steve did not show up again this evening, and a mutual friend told me that he had a few bookings.

I have sent him a message to contact me, so should hear something soon.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
I really appreciate your support on this Stephen, it makes me feel very happy
I'm Sebastian and i Play on a Hohner Concerto III called Modesto.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Fri May 11, 2018 7:42 am

Hi Sebastian,

There is no certainty that Steve can help, as his area of expertise is Lutes. Still, he will have a better idea than I do, and he may know something which is relevant.

All The Best,

Stephen.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Morne » Fri May 11, 2018 2:47 pm

Sebastian Bravo wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 10:43 pm
I don't know if i can attach the reeds with another material rather than beeswax.
While doing some other research I came across some potential ingredients for wax that could pass as vegan:
https://sites.google.com/site/fomagarmoshka/mastika (in Russian)

The first recipe is a typical beeswax mix. However, the second one does not. The page does not actually mention how to make the second recipe and I have no idea how well it works, if there are any harmful side-effects or if anybody even uses it.

Here is a reproduction of the ingredients for 3000g of that wax from that website.
  • ceresin: 999g
  • rosin: 1500g
  • petrolatum: 375g
  • dibutyl phtalat: 126g
I believe the original source is from the Russian technical handbook "Garmons, bayans and accordions" by Rozenfeld and Ivanov (1974). You can find it at the Russian Garmon forum:
http://www.russian-garmon.ru/books/9034 ... tehnikumov (in Russian)
On page 236 (237 in that PDF) it states:
  • rosin: 50%
  • ceresin: 30%
  • petrolatum: 16%
  • dibutyl phtalat: 4%
I have not translated the instructions on that page.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Fri May 11, 2018 11:50 pm

Hi Sebastian,

My friend, Steve telephoned me at lunchtime, so I posed the question regarding non-animal based products for repairing instruments.

Steve has a Vegan friend in North Wales who manufactures bespoke violins. This man collects and eats a considerable amount of seaweed, which forms a quite large percentage of his diet.

According to Tony (the man who eats seaweed) Hohner have developed a special polymer to replace leather. This product should be available from any agent for Hohner accordions, and is likely to be found in other accordion repair shops or businesses.

Tony also mentioned Carnayba Wax, which is made from Malaysian Palm Trees. This type of wax is, however, very brittle, and needs to be mixed with paraffin wax in order to prevent it from cracking. The precise ratio of Carnayba Wax to Paraffin Wax is unclear, and Tony suggested experimenting first with small amounts.

Now that I have established a link with this accomplished gentleman, I would be happy to forward any further questions you may have to him.

Hope some of this helps.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Sebastian Bravo » Mon May 14, 2018 8:16 am

Morne wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 2:47 pm
While doing some other research I came across some potential ingredients for wax that could pass as vegan:
https://sites.google.com/site/fomagarmoshka/mastika (in Russian)

The first recipe is a typical beeswax mix. However, the second one does not.
Thanks Morne! I will try that recipe, Just need to buy ceresin, petrolatum and dibutyl phtalat! thanks for making such research! I have a russian friend and i will visit him to read the book (I downloaded the pdf version)
Stephen Hawkins wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:50 pm
Hi Sebastian,

Steve has a Vegan friend in North Wales who manufactures bespoke violins. This man collects and eats a considerable amount of seaweed, which forms a quite large percentage of his diet.

According to Tony (the man who eats seaweed) Hohner have developed a special polymer to replace leather. This product should be available from any agent for Hohner accordions, and is likely to be found in other accordion repair shops or businesses.

Tony also mentioned Carnayba Wax, which is made from Malaysian Palm Trees. This type of wax is, however, very brittle, and needs to be mixed with paraffin wax in order to prevent it from cracking. The precise ratio of Carnayba Wax to Paraffin Wax is unclear, and Tony suggested experimenting first with small amounts.

Now that I have established a link with this accomplished gentleman, I would be happy to forward any further questions you may have to him.

Hope some of this helps.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.
Thanks Stephen!
That special polymer valves may be the viledon valves i think!
I will also try with the Carnayba Wax, Maybe mixing it with the ingredients that Morne mentioned!
I'm Sebastian and i Play on a Hohner Concerto III called Modesto.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by Stephen Hawkins » Mon May 14, 2018 8:34 am

Hi Sebastian,

I'm sorry that I could not be of more help. Still, it has been an interesting and informative subject, and I now know a little more about Veganism.

The man who lives in North Wales, and from whom this information has come, gathers seaweed, wild plants, fruits and herbs in order to feed himself in an environmentally sustainable way.

Though I will not emulate him, I do admire his dedication and resolve.

Kind Regards,

Stephen.

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Re: Non-Animal based materials for accordions

Post by donn » Tue May 15, 2018 5:25 pm

I doubt very much that carnauba wax would help at all. The term "wax" includes materials with many very different properties. Carnauba is more of a lubricant and not sticky at all, so there's no hope that it would make reed plates adhere. That's my take, anyway, just from using it on my floor.

If you don't want to use beeswax (and I agree with the above, it's one of the very few animal products that we get in real partnership with the animal), you could consider "hot glue" and similar cements, but look at the French method too. Nails (as far as I know, never screws.) Any durable resilient material will serve for a gasket, seems very likely that there are many options here that are better than the traditional leather. Of course there may be better fasteners, too, but in defense of nails, they've sure been a time tested way to fasten things to wood.

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