Light, bouncy and frothy.

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hais1273
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Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by hais1273 » Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:16 pm

Last year, down in the Vendee we went to a Bal-folk. As part of the warm up for the main "turn" Yves Le Blanc and the late Bernard Loffet, they played a number of dances. One of which was "Avant Deux de Travers"

Here's a group of expert black belt dancers www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXYOCx4BmlA

What surprised me was how, light, bouncy and frothy they made the tune sound. Of course the dancers responded and it was danced in a light and bouncy manner. Obviously there were some expert dancers, but the whole experience was light and frothy if you get my drift

When it's played here in the UK, the speed is fine, quick but not manic, but it usually sounds, flat, fat and stodgy. Obviuosly, a really light, but positive touch in the bass and care with the phrases. I was wondering if a "staccato" feeling with the right hand would help. I can't make up my mind with this little conundrum.
I have a feeling some heavy left hand playing from our DBA friends may not help. Any thoughts?

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by JeffJetton » Thu Jul 19, 2018 3:24 pm

Sounds like a lot of the feel there is a judicious use of accented and unaccented beats.

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by hais1273 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:30 am

Ok, thankyou, I'll throw that into the mix as well. For a numebr of tedious reasons I haven't been playing much recently, Yesterday, I did a few tunes with a friend and playing anything without fumble-fingers would have been good, never mind light and frothy!

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by Anyanka » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:39 am

hais1273 wrote:
Thu Jul 19, 2018 1:16 pm
When it's played here in the UK, the speed is fine, quick but not manic, but it usually sounds, flat, fat and stodgy.
:o That's a hell of a generalisation! I've heard Blowzabella fiddler Dave Shepherd play & teach Avant Deux, on his own and with others, e.g. the rather talented Anna Pack on diatonic accordion - not staccato, but definitely not "stodgy".

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by TomBR » Fri Jul 20, 2018 12:48 pm

There's a spectrum and different people, listeners, dancers and musicians have different tastes.

I think quite of lot of English ceilidh bands use strong On and Off beats to give a great danceable rhythm - but there are other ways of doing it. If that way is not to your taste it may sound heavy.
The music in the clip above has a light lift to it - great, but it's not the only way to do it.

A good player will be able to demonstrate different ways of playing the same music. A really good player will make all of them sound good!

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by jozz » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:48 pm


maugein96
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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by maugein96 » Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:41 pm

jozz wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:48 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_note
Hi jozz,

Seems like I'm an expert on "ghost notes"!

Mind you, mine are just notes I never managed to "hit".

Like the bit about stringed instruments. I'm great at ghost notes on those as well!

I used to own an old Fender Jaguar guitar which had a built in "palm mute" device. It was really effective (until you forgot to turn it off again!). Swapped it for a Jazzmaster, and still forgot to lift the palm of my hand off after the mute!

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by Sebastian Bravo » Thu Jul 26, 2018 9:22 am

this thread was posted in an incorrect board of the forum!
I'm Sebastian and i Play on a Hohner Concerto III called Modesto.

george garside
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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by george garside » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:24 pm

for the sake of continuity I will post this on the 'incorrect board''!

a couple of thoughts on doing light bouncy and frothy which for ''folk '' and 'trad' dance music I would have no other!

The following quote is well worth keeping in mind:

"The well known concert pianist Artur Schnabel once said 'The notes I handle no better than many pianists, but the pauses between the notes - Ah, that is where the art resides.''

I would also add that the primary rhythm MUST come from the way the treble (melody) is played and that no amount of arty farty bass will compensate for dirgy treble.


It also helps a great deal to watch the dancers and play to their feet - As sir Jimmy Shand put it '' watch the feet of the dancers and it sort of comes back to you and helps you''


It is also helpful if the musicians have experience of dancing the sort of stuff you are playing and as a band leader I find that those who play mainly by ear/from memory sound much better than avid readers who spend far too much time looking at the dots than at the dancers!

george















;

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by jollyrogeraccordions » Sun Aug 05, 2018 7:07 am

I play both diatonic button accordion and PA and the bouncy frothiness you get from a DBA is well known as one of the pluses of this (sometimes frustrating) instrument. In fact I tend to move the bellows on a PA more like a DBA player, which may upset PA teachers. I’m not saying you can’t get the same effects with a PA, but the answer to your question may lie in the fact (for instance) that B Loffet was a remarkable DBA player, able to unlock the percussive power of a DBA. I was once in a workshop with John Kirkpatrick (the great English melodeon/DBA player) and he said he thinks of the DBA as a percussive instrument.

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Re: Light, bouncy and frothy.

Post by george garside » Sun Aug 05, 2018 8:14 am

I agree that in theory some of the 'bounce' comes free of charge on a diatonic box ( but despite that some players make it sound dirgy) . Also the DBA can where desired be played extremely smoothly eg for ;song accaompanyment or for a slow smoochy waltz or indeed a haunting slow air.

Of course a piano or continental box can be played with similar bounce to a diatonic but that requires an approach that is perhaps foreighn to most piano box players. In essence it means keeping the bellows very tight 6 to 8 inches open max and fan shaped i.e more or less closed at the bottom ( but not with the strap on) ,getting the fingers off the keys between strikes and in some circumstances pulsing ( not shaking) the bellows or even doing a rapid 'back flick' on the bellows occasionaly. Also to get the effect keep the bass simple eg stick with the 3 chord trick and concentrate more on bouncy rhythm than posh harmony!

george

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