Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

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Stephen
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Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Stephen » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:18 pm

Is it me or do we notice a rising number of YT videos with accordinas?
This Latin video has more than 7500 views in less than 10 days.
The accordina is spreading in the Latin American accordion scene, or is this whisful thinking from my part?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60VUCEAVkKI
Tocando Mi Accordina en Instagram


I wonder when the Latin American accordion scene will discover the much more compact symphonium by Charles Wheatstone?
Am I the only fool in the world who wants a symphonium revival?
Please tell me I'm not the only one left defending Charles' brilliant free reeds inventions (symphonium, english concertina, piccolo concertina)
If some of you have friends in the Latin American accordion and accordina scene, you might want to show them these videos with the symphonium and EC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAAxIJACf7E&t=195s
Charles Wheatstone concertina, sound vibrations, telegraph

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euiq6vyp2dM
Mouth organ (symphonium), made by Charles Wheatstone, England (London), about 1830

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Tom » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:21 pm

Very interesting! In the tejano/conjunto Latin music scene here in the US, the latest wave of youth are "rediscovering" their roots music, which this time around means the diatonic (Hohner/Gabbinelli) button accordion driven music of the 50s and 60s (see Flaco Jimenez, etc.) This is leading to a big revival in these instruments and music. I doubt strongly that the concertina will have much play in this music, but expect to see more piano (and perhaps chromatic button; like what happened with zydeco) accordions as the young performers seek greater range of expression and incorporate more diverse influences. Just imho.

As far as concertinas go, the Chemnitzer is the go to style amongst traditionalists here in the midwest.

I think the accordiana is still mostly seen as a novelty to current accordion players.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:27 am

Stephen,
I know you are not the only one left who supports Wheatstone's inventions , there are many enthusiasts around the world, as I'm sure you know too.
I have played the English Concertina for nearly 50 years and I have tried an original Symphonium. I very much like the idea of the Accordina... perhaps I might buy one.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by TomBR » Fri Nov 30, 2018 12:37 pm

I'd say the English concertina is thriving in England - plenty to be seen in pub music sessions.
That said, it seems that there are enough vintage concertinas around to satisfy demand and prices seem fairly stable.
I don't know of anyone building new good quality English concertinas of traditional construction - the vintage instruments are meeting demand.

What's surely needed for accordina (and symphonium) is more affordable instruments. 3d printing?
Harmonikas in the Czech Republic made suitable reeds last time I looked.

CBA is very much a minority instrument here in the UK and accordina is a minority of that

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Stephen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:33 pm

There was also an experiment by Salmela for an accordina with harmonica reeds:
http://www.salmelainstruments.com/

Starting 1'10'' this mini accordina is briefly demonstrated:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mq_aR3sxVFI

As far as I know, there are no plans for mass production of this mini accordina. The cost is really high for an individual entrepreneur to start mass producing a rare and still novelty instrument.

I'm hoping someone like this Dutch engineer will create a 3D or mass production miniature CBA without basses. That would simply be an accordina with a bellows, or a miniature accordion without basses .

The problem is, once a standard size has been fixed by the industry, the industry wants to stick to this size.
Eg the standard size treble english concertina is 48 buttons/notes, with a size around 7 inches (flat to flat end).

(Semi-)Miniature ECs with 24 tot 26 buttons/notes are more likely to be around 5 inches (flat to flat end).
One doesn't really need 48 notes to play folk tunes, 2 octaves is more than enough.

Thanks to 3D experiments, we can hope for rare instruments to be revived.

The industry wants profits, so they prefer only 1 standard (size) for efficiency, cost reduction and maximizing profits.
That's the eternal problem with mass production.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Fri Nov 30, 2018 3:12 pm

Standard Treble EC's are usually 6.25 inches across.

There are one or two modern makers of the EC but , yes, there appears to be a sufficient supply of old instruments to go around.

2 octaves may be sufficient for Folk tunes in one key but if you wish to play those two octaves in a range of keys then the instrument would be better to have a three octave range. The Treble EC has the same range as the Violin 3 .5 octaves, also the same range as the Accordinas made in France. I find I often use three octaves within the same tune on the concertina whilst playing in the dance band, getting above or below the other instruments or playing harmonies to my melody.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Stephen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 7:32 pm

What symphonium did you play? A 24 reeds or a smaller one?
Do you remember the size of this symphonium?

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:37 pm

I think 24 reeds is about right, though I do not remember exactly, it was a long time ago and the property of a private collector.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by debra » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:03 pm

Accordinas have come a long way in the past years. When I was looking for one in 2007 and I tried a search on Google for "accordina" the answer was "did you mean accordion?" but that is now no longer the case.
I am still using my (Marcel Dreux) accordina, in fact used it in a concert last Sunday. It is a fun addition for cba players.
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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Stephen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:34 pm

A Borel accordina with 44 buttons is 1 kilogram.

Geoff, could you give us an idea of the netto weight of that 24 reeds Wheatstone symphonium?
The Met museum 24 reeds symphonium gives exact details for sizes, but no ounces or grams indications.

I'd like to compare symphonium with accordina.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Stephen » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:54 pm

BTW I noticed Laurent Jarry has a new accordina model, the TGeneration 3.

37 notes, 860 grams.
28 cm long.

The Accordeontheek.nl is selling this accordina model.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Geoff de Limousin » Sat Dec 01, 2018 5:14 am

Stephen wrote:
Fri Nov 30, 2018 9:34 pm


Geoff, could you give us an idea of the netto weight of that 24 reeds Wheatstone symphonium?
The Met museum 24 reeds symphonium gives exact details for sizes, but no ounces or grams indications.

I'd like to compare symphonium with accordina.
Stephen, as far as recall, and we are probably talking about 30 years ago, the Symphonium did not weigh more than a chromatic harmonica, a Hohner 16 hole. The little box was held delicately between the thumb and little finger of each hand... well that is the way I held it, in the manner of an EC player.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Stephen » Sat Dec 01, 2018 1:01 pm

Thank you for this information on the Wheatstone symphonium.
That could be something like 300 grams.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by OuijaBoard » Fri Dec 07, 2018 3:03 am

Both Juergen Suttner and Wim Wakker build traditional, Wheatstone-based English concertinas. Suttner offers Treble and Tenor models, and Wakker offers Treble, Tenor, and Baritone.

I tried Laurent Jarry's accordina in his Monteuil shop a couple of weeks ago----it looks and sounds lovely, but I kept groping for the bellows . . . {} BTW, he had a super-fancy Lachenal EC in stock with a super-premium model name I forget--fancier than a New Model, with beautiful floral decorationa on it.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by Stephen » Fri Dec 07, 2018 7:56 pm

A Lachenal Edeophone? These rivalled with Wheatstone aeola ECs.

Me too, I prefer the use of bellows for my free reeds.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by lispinini » Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:21 am

I have just contributed to the rising sales numbers of accordinas and it arrived yesterday. :lol:
https://youtu.be/QWkmS8HjG0w

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by debra » Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:51 pm

lispinini wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:21 am
I have just contributed to the rising sales numbers of accordinas and it arrived yesterday. :lol:
https://youtu.be/QWkmS8HjG0w
You seem to be getting on with it almost immediately.
Took me quite a bit longer but I was coming from PA and just starting on CBA at the time...

It puzzles me why so many new accordina players opt for the mouthpiece on the sort end, like with a melodica.
Originally the mouthpiece was always on the side, and that's what I chose as well. It somehow feels more special to have the mouthpiece on the side. But it doesn't matter for the sound at all.

Enjoy!
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by lispinini » Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:51 pm

debra wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 1:51 pm
lispinini wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 11:21 am
I have just contributed to the rising sales numbers of accordinas and it arrived yesterday. :lol:
https://youtu.be/QWkmS8HjG0w
You seem to be getting on with it almost immediately.
Took me quite a bit longer but I was coming from PA and just starting on CBA at the time...

It puzzles me why so many new accordina players opt for the mouthpiece on the sort end, like with a melodica.
Originally the mouthpiece was always on the side, and that's what I chose as well. It somehow feels more special to have the mouthpiece on the side. But it doesn't matter for the sound at all.

Enjoy!
Hi Paul,
I still don't feel quite right with the plastic buttons on the accordina, and I tend to overblow the lower reeds a lot (maybe because I used to play other woodwind instruments). I have been practising a lot with the Medard Ferroro's Method book so it may help me a bit with the fingerings too.

I discussed with Marcel about the position of the mouthpiece and the conclusion was that it's really down to the player's preference. I don't think any of them is inferior to the other one. Marcel prefers to have the mouthpiece on the top but both Richard Galliano and Ludovic Beier play the ones with the mouthpiece on the side. I think it looks cooler to have a mouthpiece on the side but I find it hard to play with my right hand. Also, the one with the mouthpiece on the top allows me to rest it on the table or on my lap when practising. Anyway, it doesn't seem to be too hard to switch the position of the mouthpiece by unscrewing the screws and swapping the openings. Do you know if that's possible?

Besides, I find it hard to bend the notes on my accordina. Is it normal? Is it really easier to bend notes on the signature models?

If anyone is planning to get an accordina from Marcel, I will suggest them wait until January. There is a new carbon model coming and I personally prefer the sound of the carbon model.

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by debra » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:23 pm

lispinini wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:51 pm
...
Hi Paul,
...
I discussed with Marcel about the position of the mouthpiece and the conclusion was that it's really down to the player's preference. I don't think any of them is inferior to the other one. Marcel prefers to have the mouthpiece on the top but both Richard Galliano and Ludovic Beier play the ones with the mouthpiece on the side. I think it looks cooler to have a mouthpiece on the side but I find it hard to play with my right hand. Also, the one with the mouthpiece on the top allows me to rest it on the table or on my lap when practising. Anyway, it doesn't seem to be too hard to switch the position of the mouthpiece by unscrewing the screws and swapping the openings. Do you know if that's possible?

Besides, I find it hard to bend the notes on my accordina. Is it normal? Is it really easier to bend notes on the signature models?

If anyone is planning to get an accordina from Marcel, I will suggest them wait until January. There is a new carbon model coming and I personally prefer the sound of the carbon model.
The mouthpiece that goes on the side is different so you cannot just "move" the mouthpiece. There are two types also: one like the original Borel accordina and one that is longer (and which is the one I have).

Bending notes is almost impossible on this model accordina. The much older accordinas had solid sides that could be "squeezed" to bend notes. Even so the notes won't bend like on a harmonica. Accordina players use grace notes to replace the tone bending done by harmonica players to start a note.
Paul De Bra (not Debra...)
http://www.de-bra.nl

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Re: Rising sales numbers for accordinas ?

Post by lispinini » Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:52 pm

debra wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 3:23 pm
lispinini wrote:
Sun Dec 09, 2018 2:51 pm
...
Hi Paul,
...
I discussed with Marcel about the position of the mouthpiece and the conclusion was that it's really down to the player's preference. I don't think any of them is inferior to the other one. Marcel prefers to have the mouthpiece on the top but both Richard Galliano and Ludovic Beier play the ones with the mouthpiece on the side. I think it looks cooler to have a mouthpiece on the side but I find it hard to play with my right hand. Also, the one with the mouthpiece on the top allows me to rest it on the table or on my lap when practising. Anyway, it doesn't seem to be too hard to switch the position of the mouthpiece by unscrewing the screws and swapping the openings. Do you know if that's possible?

Besides, I find it hard to bend the notes on my accordina. Is it normal? Is it really easier to bend notes on the signature models?

If anyone is planning to get an accordina from Marcel, I will suggest them wait until January. There is a new carbon model coming and I personally prefer the sound of the carbon model.
The mouthpiece that goes on the side is different so you cannot just "move" the mouthpiece. There are two types also: one like the original Borel accordina and one that is longer (and which is the one I have).

Bending notes is almost impossible on this model accordina. The much older accordinas had solid sides that could be "squeezed" to bend notes. Even so the notes won't bend like on a harmonica. Accordina players use grace notes to replace the tone bending done by harmonica players to start a note.
Thank you Paul, that answers my questions. I play the harmonica too, but the accordina is such a unique instrument to have and I do not regret buying it. :)

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